Coronavirus in Massachusetts (grown, bulk, cluster)

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by Shrewsburried

"huge" is you projecting. It's not huge. You can get next-day or next-week turn on procedures right now. Med device sales are absolute garbage, which is the best indicator (IMO).

I can't speak to the Boston hospitals but the big urban ones west of Boston in hot zones have made a huge shift to telemedicine. The hospitals I know about are now up around 50% telemedicine for office visits. That certainly helps with the transmission rate.

[porterhouse]

Originally Posted by Shrewsburried

...there hasn't been a huge inflow.

Originally Posted by porterhouse

There has been an inflow, huge or otherwise

Originally Posted by Shrewsburried

"huge" is you projecting. It's not huge.

Your post introduced the term huge.

Bottom line, in many states, today there are healthy people going in for elective procedures and testing positive for Covid-19. There individuals will then count as a new hospitalized Covid case for that states reporting data. Are elective procedures at pre pandemic levels? Certainly not. Are they significant enough to skew the numbers? Probably.

[Shrewsburried]

Originally Posted by porterhouse

Your post introduced the term huge.

Bottom line, in many states, today there are healthy people going in for elective procedures and testing positive for Covid-19. There individuals will then count as a new hospitalized Covid case for that states reporting data. Are elective procedures at pre pandemic levels? Certainly not. Are they significant enough to skew the numbers? Probably.

Fair, but borderline pedantic.

“big way” vs “huge”. eh.

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by porterhouse

Your post introduced the term huge.

Bottom line, in many states, today there are healthy people going in for elective procedures and testing positive for Covid-19. There individuals will then count as a new hospitalized Covid case for that states reporting data. Are elective procedures at pre pandemic levels? Certainly not. Are they significant enough to skew the numbers? Probably.

So you think if you’re tested positive before an elective procedure, you’re hospitalized? Why would they do that unless you had severe pneumonia symptoms where hospitalization was deemed necessary. And if you had those symptoms, do you really think you’d show up for elective surgery?

[BostonMike7]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

So you think if you’re tested positive before an elective procedure, you’re hospitalized? Why would they do that unless you had severe pneumonia symptoms where hospitalization was deemed necessary. And if you had those symptoms, do you really think you’d show up for elective surgery?

I agree. That doesn't make sense. If one goes in for a procedure like a vasectomy, and tests positive during the pre-admission covid test despite being asymptomatic, they consider you hospitalized?

The skewing of the numbers to paint a narrative doesn't make sense, and I've heard some really far out theories as to why. One person who I am an acquaintance with stated profusely that COVID deaths were exaggerated because people who die for other reasons are still being counted as COVID deaths. In their logic, dying of a heart attack while COVID positive should not count as a COVID death, but should rather be considered a standard heart attack. The fact that COVID likely caused the heart attack "cannot be proven so therefore shouldn't be counted"

[Shrewsburried]

Originally Posted by BostonMike7

I agree. That doesn't make sense. If one goes in for a procedure like a vasectomy, and tests positive during the pre-admission covid test despite being asymptomatic, they consider you hospitalized?

The skewing of the numbers to paint a narrative doesn't make sense, and I've heard some really far out theories as to why. One person who I am an acquaintance with stated profusely that COVID deaths were exaggerated because people who die for other reasons are still being counted as COVID deaths. In their logic, dying of a heart attack while COVID positive should not count as a COVID death, but should rather be considered a standard heart attack. The fact that COVID likely caused the heart attack "cannot be proven so therefore shouldn't be counted"

If anything, the lethality numbers skew the opposite way as our local hospitals were not testing patients for Covid post-mortem. If they had overt symptoms they might get counted, but if the death was undefined or the patient arrived dead in transport ... nope, not counted.

[Shrewsburried]

Originally Posted by Shrewsburried

If anything, the lethality numbers skew the opposite way as our local hospitals were not testing patients for Covid post-mortem. If they had overt symptoms they might get counted, but if the death was undefined or the patient arrived dead in transport ... nope, not counted.

*likely, but that's conjecture on my end based on inputs from the clinical side.

[sawyer2]

Originally Posted by BostonMike7

I agree. That doesn't make sense. If one goes in for a procedure like a vasectomy, and tests positive during the pre-admission covid test despite being asymptomatic, they consider you hospitalized?

I cant speak to all hospitals, but I know that this is not how it is done at BIDMC and MGH from MDs I know working there - only counted if you are specifically/primarily admitted for COVID related.

The same MDs have said that the other downside to COVID is how many early cancer diagnoses that respond better to early intervention/treatment are missed because of people staying home for routine and elective visits - breast, ovarian, prostate, testicular. The number of cases presented is pretty constant with population and they have seen a huge dip over the last few months.

Unfortunately it probably feeds the 'let 'er rip' crowd but will lead to a sad outcome for many people nonetheless.

[BostonMike7]

Originally Posted by Shrewsburried

If anything, the lethality numbers skew the opposite way as our local hospitals were not testing patients for Covid post-mortem. If they had overt symptoms they might get counted, but if the death was undefined or the patient arrived dead in transport ... nope, not counted.

I am aware of that happening in the early days of COVID when testing was limited. If I a person died at home and was suspected of COVID, they were not being tested and not counted towards the total. This was told to me by family members who were medical/first responders.

article here on this
https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local...orted/2112459/


Now, MA is reporting "probably deaths" to account for this, but it is another example of the actual deaths being undercounted in some cases.


Now, if a person with COVID died in a 7-car pileup as a passenger and that was counted as a COVID death, then I would have an issue with that.

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by Shrewsburried

If anything, the lethality numbers skew the opposite way as our local hospitals were not testing patients for Covid post-mortem. If they had overt symptoms they might get counted, but if the death was undefined or the patient arrived dead in transport ... nope, not counted.

There’s also the whole 30% false negative thing. If you don’t test early in the disease, you often don’t pick it up with the “stuff a toothbrush up your nose” method of collecting the test sample. It’s a tough disease to gather reliable data.