Coronavirus in Massachusetts (underwater, university, dangerous)

[OutdoorLover]

A new article in Science discusses the new Delta variant of Covid-19 that is steadily becoming the dominant form. The mutations of this form render it significantly more transmissible, and significantly more dangerous, and they also make the vaccine antibodies less effective. Fully vaccinated people have significant protection, though incomplete, and half-vaccinated people are clearly more vulnerable. Sadly, some prominent voices on the right *continue* to promote the *false belief* that Covid-19 is not dangerous and that the vaccine is dangerous. It's impossible to understand what their motives are for wanting this false and dangerous belief to prevail, but ignorance is the handmaiden of disease.

"Delta variant triggers new phase in the pandemic"
https://science.sciencemag.org/content/372/6549/1375

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by Amontillado

"Eradicating the virus" is of very little use, unless you can seal your borders the way Iceland and New Zealand have done. For anywhere that isn't an island, it's too easy for someone to carry the virus in, maybe in some nasty new form. What will save people's lives is when everyone's immunized, so that it doesn't matter if the virus is around or not.

This is kind of circular. If everyone is vaccinated and the transmission rate among vaccinated people is extremely low, the virus is eradicated.

[Amontillado]

I was responding to the statement "They had come so close to eradicating the virus. All it takes are a few introductions of the Delta variant and it can take off. Many parts in the US, including some areas in New England, are in for a not so great awakening".

What I meant was that those countries (Britain and Israel) were never close to being safe. Sure, maybe it can be eliminated in one place or another--in fact there was a time when it didn't exist at all among humans--but let a source of infection arrive, and anyone without the vaccination is in danger. The people who refuse to be immunized are always at risk.

Smallpox, on the other hand, really has been eliminated, and we've stopped being immunized for that. But we say it can never spread again, so that's OK. I hope it's true.

[Shrewsburried]

Originally Posted by OutdoorLover

A new article in Science discusses the new Delta variant of Covid-19 that is steadily becoming the dominant form. The mutations of this form render it significantly more transmissible, and significantly more dangerous, and they also make the vaccine antibodies less effective. Fully vaccinated people have significant protection, though incomplete, and half-vaccinated people are clearly more vulnerable. Sadly, some prominent voices on the right *continue* to promote the *false belief* that Covid-19 is not dangerous and that the vaccine is dangerous. It's impossible to understand what their motives are for wanting this false and dangerous belief to prevail, but ignorance is the handmaiden of disease.

"Delta variant triggers new phase in the pandemic"
https://science.sciencemag.org/content/372/6549/1375

Not just those on the 'right'. You have the useful and supposedly non-partisan 'intellectuals' who unintentionally align or fuel overtly anti-science types.

I wish these seemingly credible scientists could voice concerns regarding, for example, pediatric Covid vaccination risks without aligning themselves with likes of Attkisson who shilled false vaccine autism rhetoric on platforms like her show and The Hill for years.

[msRB311]

I admit I am nervous for my kids to get the vaccine whenever it's ready but the more i hear about this delta and brain damage crap the more I'm thinking they should just get it. Speaking to pediatrician about it next week. I also know some pregnant people who decided not to get it because they're pregnant and worried what it could do to baby or them etc...and they're not far right thinkers.

[Shrewsburried]

Originally Posted by msRB311

I admit I am nervous for my kids to get the vaccine whenever it's ready but the more i hear about this delta and brain damage crap the more I'm thinking they should just get it. Speaking to pediatrician about it next week. I also know some pregnant people who decided not to get it because they're pregnant and worried what it could do to baby or them etc...and they're not far right thinkers.

Not suggesting those concerned about pediatric use are. It's that those voicing concern seemingly cannot or will not untether themselves from overt anti-vax types which fold their comments into larger anti-vax propaganda.

[msRB311]

I think there are people who think the vaccine was developed too quickly and hasn't been tested enough...and i kind of understand where they're coming from. I do not agree with these people who are trying to spread the word that it's dangerous to people and they shouldn't get it.

The day i got my vaccine there was an old man there saying he didn't want to get this damn thing but was there because of his wife. I mean i think for decades men in particular aren't always great about going to the dr when they should or taking care of themselves...maybe this guy fell into that group or maybe he's a far right proud boy. I kind of think he fell into the first group though...

[Amontillado]

Originally Posted by msRB311

I think there are people who think the vaccine was developed too quickly and hasn't been tested enough...and i kind of understand where they're coming from.

Well, they're right. But with 600,000 dead, we're forced into a quick choice.

[Shrewsburried]

Originally Posted by Amontillado

Well, they're right. But with 600,000 dead, we're forced into a quick choice.

Regarding adult populations, they're dead wrong regarding risk and testing if they're still claiming as much. We now have over 300million doses administered and the risks, or lack of, are now incredibly clear ... magnitudes higher than a typical phIII clinical trial.

[jayrandom]

Originally Posted by Shrewsburried

Regarding adult populations, they're dead wrong regarding risk and testing if they're still claiming as much. We now have over 300million doses administered and the risks, or lack of, are now incredibly clear ... magnitudes higher than a typical phIII clinical trial.

The argument in this case is always "long-term effects haven't been studied". That's true, but not a good argument. Of course the long-term effects haven't been studied, we haven't had a long enough time to study them! The long-term effects of COVID infection haven't been studied, either.

We know how the vaccines work, what they do, and what cells they target. Everything is well-controlled and has been well-studied. Immediate side-effects are small. With SARS-COV-2 we have a much less limited understanding of everything it does, we know that immediate side-effects can be significant and sometimes fatal. We are only beginning to get an understanding of all the things the virus does. It is not well controlled. It seems pretty clear that in an environment where you're going to either get the virus or the vaccine, the vaccine is the safer choice.

Of course, in a high-vaccination-rate environment like Massachusetts, people then say, "well, enough people got the vaccine so that infection is no longer likely to occur". That changes the math in their minds. Again, this is not an unreasonable position from a strictly "I do what is best for me" sort of thinking. Let's say the long-term vaccine risk is 1/1000th of the long-term COVID risk. If your risk of getting COVID is <1/1000, it wouldn't make sense to get the vaccine.

I don't agree with this logic, but for other reasons. It may not necessarily be illogical, it's just selfish. In order to get your risk that low, lots of other people had to bear whatever small vaccination risk that allows you specifically to avoid that risk. If you want to skip the vaccine AND continue strict social distancing measures, fine. Most people in the "I don't want an untested vaccine" camp are also in the "I don't need social distancing" camp, as well.