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I apologize. I didn't know you'd take it so personally. I did realize after messing around on the Flickr site and then Google that somebody created all those maps, probably somebody in the SkyscraperPage/SkyscraperCity crowd. Was it you? When I said I've seen better I meant that I've seen maps that are more detailed to the street level and better show how striking the divide is, such as the census map I linked to. Now there are some other maps out there that are similar to the census maps but show all races at once and I really liked them. It's been several years though so I can't recall the website they're on, but it's a demographics website and the URL is an acronym of about 5 letters.
Apology accepted. I did not create those maps. If there are other maps that show the spatial distribution of racial groups in cities better than those maps, I haven't seen them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo
I gave you a friendly somewhat sarcastic rep, but I gotta say, you are one to talk about being un-thankful. You posted a link. That’s nice. I have posted threads that have taken me hours to put together and you have come in and had nothing good to say, mostly backhanded comments. You played a pretty big role in messing up the sticky at the top of this page. You could have just said thanks for that thread like most other people, but nope.
I posted some comments asking about your financial self-interest in posting your photos here, because it seemed to me like it was possibly self-serving to post photos that you will profit from if anyone buys prints of those photos from your website. I believe that City-Data requires real estate agents to identify themselves as such whenever posting on City-Data, since they have a profit motive in providing information about where to live. This was the same thing. I thought that you had a profit motive for posting the photos, and wondered if that was against site policy.
When I posted those comments, that thread was not stickied. It only became stickied later when people requested that it be stickied. IMO it's time to take it down from being stickied. If I had known that it would serve as the top post in the KC forum for a year or more, I wouldn't have made those comments.
You take nice photos. You are a professional photographer. And you have a financial interest in posting your photos here. All of those things are true.
Apology accepted. I did not create those maps. If there are other maps that show the spatial distribution of racial groups in cities better than those maps, I haven't seen them.
I posted some comments asking about your financial self-interest in posting your photos here, because it seemed to me like it was possibly self-serving to post photos that you will profit from if anyone buys prints of those photos from your website. I believe that City-Data requires real estate agents to identify themselves as such whenever posting on City-Data, since they have a profit motive in providing information about where to live. This was the same thing. I thought that you had a profit motive for posting the photos, and wondered if that was against site policy.
When I posted those comments, that thread was not stickied. It only became stickied later when people requested that it be stickied. IMO it's time to take it down from being stickied. If I had known that it would serve as the top post in the KC forum for a year or more, I wouldn't have made those comments.
You take nice photos. You are a professional photographer. And you have a financial interest in posting your photos here. All of those things are true.
While I don't know KCMO personally or even really online, I've been following websites he's on for years and I can tell you the guy has a strong passion for Kansas City and his activity on these forums is leisure. He is NOT here to advertise his photography. I enjoy his photography and many others do as well. We ought to be mighty thankful we have such a talented and willing individual representing our city and providing us photographic reference of every major city in the country - for free! As far as I can tell what he does is unmatched by anybody else and we have the pleasure of being his online acquaintance. The only person who compares to him locally is Eric Bowers and I haven't seen that guy around unfortunately. I miss his presence, as I was greatful to take in work as well. However, Eric was only local to Kansas City. KCMO does this all over the country! It's really quite amazing what he does. Bringing up the idea that he's advertising here because of some kind of personal problem will only stifle his contribution and shame on anybody who does that! I suppose if Eric Clapton posted here and came out with a new album you'd think he was peddling his goods. *rolls eyes*
While I don't know KCMO personally or even really online, I've been following websites he's on for years and I can tell you the guy has a strong passion for Kansas City and his activity on these forums is leisure. He is NOT here to advertise his photography. I enjoy his photography and many others do as well. We ought to be mighty thankful we have such a talented and willing individual representing our city and providing us photographic reference of every major city in the country - for free! As far as I can tell what he does is unmatched by anybody else and we have the pleasure of being his online acquaintance. The only person who compares to him locally is Eric Bowers and I haven't seen that guy around unfortunately. I miss his presence, as I was greatful to take in work as well. However, Eric was only local to Kansas City. KCMO does this all over the country! It's really quite amazing what he does. Bringing up the idea that he's advertising here because of some kind of personal problem will only stifle his contribution and shame on anybody who does that! I suppose if Eric Clapton posted here and came out with a new album you'd think he was peddling his goods. *rolls eyes*
I only brought it up one time, and only mentioned it here again because he called me out on it. It's really low on my list of priorities. But he isn't giving away photos for free. Every photo that he posts is copyrighted, so you cannot use them in any way except to look at them here. He is using this forum as a showcase for his photography. Fine.
I have said many times that he takes nice photos. I have seen Kansas City in ways through his photos that I never saw Kansas City before.
You guys need to spend some time looking at those maps if you think Kansas City is exceptional in terms of segregation, especially if you think places like Denver or Chicago (which is one of the most segregated cities in America by any measure) are in any way less segregated...
It's funny that you quote me, because prior to Kansas City, I actually lived in Chicago, in the far north neighborhood of Rogers Park, which was at that time, and continues to be, one of the most culturally and ethnically diverse neighborhoods in Chicago and in the country. In Chicago, I had neighbors (like, actual neighbors who I knew in my building and surrounding ones and interacted with, not just people in the neighborhood) of all races, from places as diverse as Nigeria, Jamaica, Mexico, Trinidad, Korea, Russia, Belize, Armenia, Canada, and Germany. I lived sandwiched in between a Lutheran church, a synagogue, a Spanish language-only Catholic cathedral, and an Assyrian (early church that performs services in Aramaic) church. I could buy elotes, kosher foods, jerk chicken, sushi, and soul food all within feet of my apartment.
QUITE a bit different than "go east of Troost for the black people, west of Troost for the white people, unless you're looking for Hispanics of any race, and then go to the southwest side.
It's funny that you quote me, because prior to Kansas City, I actually lived in Chicago, in the far north neighborhood of Rogers Park, which was at that time, and continues to be, one of the most culturally and ethnically diverse neighborhoods in Chicago and in the country. In Chicago, I had neighbors (like, actual neighbors who I knew in my building and surrounding ones and interacted with, not just people in the neighborhood) of all races, from places as diverse as Nigeria, Jamaica, Mexico, Trinidad, Korea, Russia, Belize, Armenia, Canada, and Germany. I lived sandwiched in between a Lutheran church, a synagogue, a Spanish language-only Catholic cathedral, and an Assyrian (early church that performs services in Aramaic) church. I could buy elotes, kosher foods, jerk chicken, sushi, and soul food all within feet of my apartment.
QUITE a bit different than "go east of Troost for the black people, west of Troost for the white people, unless you're looking for Hispanics of any race, and then go to the southwest side.
Good to know that you have more faith in your own comparatively narrow range of experience than the aggregate knowledge of people who literally study things like American cities and segregation patterns for the entirety of their working lives. Forgive me if I don't.
While I don't know KCMO personally or even really online, I've been following websites he's on for years and I can tell you the guy has a strong passion for Kansas City and his activity on these forums is leisure. He is NOT here to advertise his photography. I enjoy his photography and many others do as well. We ought to be mighty thankful we have such a talented and willing individual representing our city and providing us photographic reference of every major city in the country - for free! As far as I can tell what he does is unmatched by anybody else and we have the pleasure of being his online acquaintance. The only person who compares to him locally is Eric Bowers and I haven't seen that guy around unfortunately. I miss his presence, as I was greatful to take in work as well. However, Eric was only local to Kansas City. KCMO does this all over the country! It's really quite amazing what he does. Bringing up the idea that he's advertising here because of some kind of personal problem will only stifle his contribution and shame on anybody who does that! I suppose if Eric Clapton posted here and came out with a new album you'd think he was peddling his goods. *rolls eyes*
Thanks mokan. You are exactly right. I have zero motive to sell photos via this forum. I only enjoy showing off KC through my photos. I also post other cities once in a while too. Even if I did sell a few photos, it just wouldn’t matter much. I sell a lot of photos and license a lot of photos, so any sales from here would be a drop in the bucket. This is just a place I go to be myself and discuss cities.
I honestly don’t think pics on this forum or other forums like it would generate many sales anyway. I sure have not heard of any customers finding me via here or other forums, if I sell a few photos that's great, but it’s just not a reason why I post. If it were, I would be posting a lot more pics than I do.
I'm WAY too opinionated on forums like this and would just rather not associate my business with my posts. If it were up to me, I would just assume post the photos anonymously, but that doesn’t work too well. I can’t post non-watermarked photos and risk them being swiped and if I don’t claim them I will get called out for posting other people’s photos. So that’s why I try to be pretty quiet about them being mine and most people seem to respect that, but they know they are mine. But sometimes I have the only or the best photos to post, especially for KC stuff and so I use mine.
Good to know that you have more faith in your own comparatively narrow range of experience than the aggregate knowledge of people who literally study things like American cities and segregation patterns for the entirety of their working lives. Forgive me if I don't.
Is there any particular reason I should find your impressions and/or experiences anymore valid than my own? Or perhaps your opinions are valid, and mine are somehow not? Didn't think so.
Is there any particular reason I should find your impressions and/or experiences anymore valid than my own? Or perhaps your opinions are valid, and mine are somehow not? Didn't think so.
Because I'm not talking about my experiences or impressions. I'm telling you what the data suggests, or in this case, flat out says: that your experience is an outlier, and thus, the conclusions you have drawn from it are invalid. In short, that you are wrong.
It's pretty simpleminded to assume the experience and impressions you garnered living in Rogers Park are representative of life in Chicago as a whole. Don't you think your experience/impressions might be different if you lived in the Wild Hundreds, or Little Village, or Edison Park?
Do yourself a favor before you continue in this vein. Do a little research. Demographers actually invented the word "hypersegregated" in an attempt to describe Chicago relative to other highly segregated places. Its been in the top 5 of every study published on American segregation since the 60's. Its literally famous for being segregated.
Your reductivist view of Kansas City might be quite a bit different if you lived in, say, Northeast. But living in Northeast is not really representative of Kansas City as a whole. Basically your argument is that Kansas City is more segregated than Rogers Park, and thus more segregated than "much larger and ethnically richer cities". But Rogers Park is not larger or ethnically richer than Kansas City. Chicago is. And Rogers Park is not Chicago. That's like living in Rainier Valley and based on that, claiming that Seattle is more diverse than Queens.
You are aware, I'm assuming, that people ARE allowed (encouraged, even!) to post their personal experiences? If I note, as I have on this thread, that I have noticed more defined segregation during my time living in Kansas City than I have when I've lived elsewhere, that is really not "a reductivist view." It is simply my experience. I never claimed that it was anything else. I posted that I dislike that. It is simply my opinion. I never claimed it was anything else. Get a life and find something worthwhile to rip apart than somebody logging onto a messageboard and posting their opinions and experiences and presenting them as such.
Everything is not a fight. Jesus Christ.
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