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Arizona has one of the largest percentage of American citizens who are of Hispanic decent. This bill is racial discrimination against them in the name of illegal immigration and they all know it. The whites know it too, but spew up half baked spin to justify it. Illegal immigration is a serious problem but the bill 1070 is not the way to solve it. It is a very slippery slope and our country, our state, and the foundations of democracy will be worse off because of it. As if Arizona doesn't have enough problems. Now the right wing, fanatic, politicians want to start our own little race war. And start it will. They have created a climate of fear and resentment for all hispanics in the state. We have sold out the soul of our government, thrown away our moral compass and let loose the jack boots of a police state on a good portion of our citizens. In Germany it was the Jews. In Iraq it's the Kurds, In Yugoslavia it was the Bosnians. In Arizona it is the Hispanic. It's all the same. Every day is a new day but the sun still rises in the east. Nothing changes, yet everything does. I already see the fear and anger in the community where I live. I hear the angry bluster from the whites in conversation and the look of fear in the latino faces whom I've known for years and are here legally. No matter how you soft pedal it, it is more than just an ID check. It is the cornerstone of a dangerous movement building in America that threatens us all, in the end. Rest assured, the far right neocon movement will exploit it in every way possible.
But, randomly stopping people, because they look like they are illegal, is blatantly against the 4th amendment, and as soon as it goes before a Federal court, the law will be repealed.
That's an assumption people that are against it are making right now to argue their point. I think the law reads that the police have to have suspicion that the person is here illegally so, assuming that will be considered enough of a reason to have suspicion is an assumption at this point. The governor has made it very clear that any kind of profiling because of this law, will not be tolerated at all. Considering the uproar the rest of the country is making over this, she's be a stictler about that too. I heard the other day before she signed this into law, she had been on the phone six times with the WH (that day) and I think even the president himself and she commented that she was not happy at all about being stuck right in the middle of all this. Even she had vetoed it (not that she was thinking about it) that still left her stuck right in the middle with all the support in the state.
Before the police can stop you, they have to have probable cause to believe that a crime has been committed or being committed. As it stands, it's not very difficult for police come up with a reason and if they can't, they can always just lie about the reason...it's happened to me in the past. As an example, being pulled over at 1:15AM (15 minutes after the bars closed), to see if I might have had alcohol on my breath, if my license was in force, if I had insurance or if I had any wants or warrants on me. After following me for quite some time without seeing me show any signs that I might be impaired, they pulled over before I left their jurisdiction to ask why I hesitated awhile back in making a right turn onto that street and that car behind me had to honk their horn because of that. It turns out the hesitation he was referring to was a total of 5 seconds but, because the car he claimed that was behind me had to honk their horn (which there was no car behind me...who would beep their horn after 5 seconds even if there was one....except a NYC cab driver...lol), it allowed him to say he suspected that I was impeding traffic....it's that simple for them to do.
The other part of this as well is, let's say they pull someone over because they suspect they're here illegally...they have to show that they're not...if they're not, no crime is being committed. At that point, unless he can come up with another reason or lie to suspect a crime is being committed (like he could easily see something taht was illegal in the car now), he can't go any further with any kind of search (not legally but, like I said, it's easy enough for them to lie...which they can do now any way).
Last edited by Danno3314; 04-24-2010 at 10:35 PM..
Understood but my point was you have both legal and illegal people leaving this small town, the premise is that business's lost a lot of customers but how many of those customers were legal residents that would have stayed if this was a national policy?
I understood you....I was just making an additional comment....I think some might be thinking they left to return to their native country.
You're missing his/her point, what if they're not an illegal alien and let's say they were even born and raised here, then their rights have been violated.
Arizona has one of the largest percentage of American citizens who are of Hispanic decent. This bill is racial discrimination against them in the name of illegal immigration and they all know it. The whites know it too, but spew up half baked spin to justify it. Illegal immigration is a serious problem but the bill 1070 is not the way to solve it. It is a very slippery slope and our country, our state, and the foundations of democracy will be worse off because of it. As if Arizona doesn't have enough problems. Now the right wing, fanatic, politicians want to start our own little race war. And start it will. They have created a climate of fear and resentment for all hispanics in the state. We have sold out the soul of our government, thrown away our moral compass and let loose the jack boots of a police state on a good portion of our citizens. In Germany it was the Jews. In Iraq it's the Kurds, In Yugoslavia it was the Bosnians. In Arizona it is the Hispanic. It's all the same. Every day is a new day but the sun still rises in the east. Nothing changes, yet everything does. I already see the fear and anger in the community where I live. I hear the angry bluster from the whites in conversation and the look of fear in the latino faces whom I've known for years and are here legally. No matter how you soft pedal it, it is more than just an ID check. It is the cornerstone of a dangerous movement building in America that threatens us all, in the end. Rest assured, the far right neocon movement will exploit it in every way possible.
I'm not sure I entirely agree with the law and I live here in AZ but, you need to get down off that soap box you're on. The law is not racial discrimination against people of Hispanic decent. That part of the law you're wrong about...it's if the police suspect a person is here illegally. Just because the state has a large percentage of American citizens that are of Hispanic decent, how does the law discrimunate against them racially more than any other person that could also be here illegally. I was born in NJ, I'm mostly of Italian decent (I can't say I have a lot of common Italian characteristics....I have dark hair like most southern Italians have....many northern Italians have blonde hair), I've been in AZ for 20 years now....I've have people assuming that I'm Hispanic all the time so, what does that mean....nothing. I know people here illegally from Bosnia, Russia....there's been quite an influx lately (not all, just some). The ones that are here illegally that I know, flew to Mexico and then crossed the border illegally.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Assuming the worst, as some here predict, is asking someone to show that he is legally allowed to be in the country a violation of this amendment? Asking for ID is not a search nor a seizure, so I'd like those who are claiming Fourth Amendment violations to explain their case.
I have never said otherwise. The fact is that if you want to know about immigrant crime and abuses of our systems running rampant, you need to look no further than my backyard in NY. I have witnessed fraud that no other ethnic group has ever perpetrated and yet the focus is on the Latino immigrants. The lies and deception that the Russian immigrant population here has used to get into this country and milk our systems dry is deplorable. We have our share of Mexican, Guatamalen and other Latino ethnic groups here, but they are paled by the influx of illegal and criminally intent Russians. I'd like nothing better than an all out crackdown on these low lives. I suppose you cannot realte to what I am talking about until you have lived in close proximity to these people.
These are legal russian immigrants or illegal entry/ overstaying visa?
Native daughter of suffolk county- due east from you, but I moved. I heard the russian mob stuck close to brooklyn. Seaside town I can't remember the name of but I do recall it used to be predominantly polish/ jewish working class. I know russian mob having traveled to russia, but never did encounter them in NY. The russian people were more terrified of them than the government, more than KGB. I was left with the impression that they were the government of the streets post glastnost. Mexico is a known import route for them and human trafficking of sex slaves is attributed to them with higher frequency. Cash cows are arms, sex slaves, and drugs. Heard a story-- unverified-- that they were forcing pregnant indentured prostitutes to give birth so they could sell infants on a black market. One cash crop or another, I wouldn't put it past them.
America is aiding and abetting all of this by virtue of neglect, and nasty habits of our own. We need to clean up immigration law. We need illegals out and borders rigid. We need the wrong people (violent, antisocial) screened out. Having rogue herds of poverty concentrating in areas isn't working for anyone. They only resort to desperate things and that's when human relations fall to cinders. None of this has to be.
I'm not sure I entirely agree with the law and I live here in AZ but, you need to get down off that soap box you're on. The law is not racial discrimination against people of Hispanic decent. That part of the law you're wrong about...it's if the police suspect a person is here illegally. Just because the state has a large percentage of American citizens that are of Hispanic decent, how does the law discrimunate against them racially more than any other person that could also be here illegally. I was born in NJ, I'm mostly of Italian decent (I can't say I have a lot of common Italian characteristics....I have dark hair like most southern Italians have....many northern Italians have blonde hair), I've been in AZ for 20 years now....I've have people assuming that I'm Hispanic all the time so, what does that mean....nothing. I know people here illegally from Bosnia, Russia....there's been quite an influx lately (not all, just some). The ones that are here illegally that I know, flew to Mexico and then crossed the border illegally.
And if this were a boatload of chinese gangs showing up in portland oregon, it's the exact same issue as Arizona. Each state or province has had their own spin and the veneer might be different but it's all the same problem and it's all federal neglect. The real problem at this point is that citizens & local authorities have become exasperated with appeals for over 20yrs.
I'm just hoping the next time any politician is selling 'no big government' people force them to account for what they mean to cut because telling law enforcement to take a powder is dereliction of duty.
Arizona has one of the largest percentage of American citizens who are of Hispanic decent. This bill is racial discrimination against them in the name of illegal immigration and they all know it. The whites know it too, but spew up half baked spin to justify it. Illegal immigration is a serious problem but the bill 1070 is not the way to solve it. It is a very slippery slope and our country, our state, and the foundations of democracy will be worse off because of it. As if Arizona doesn't have enough problems. Now the right wing, fanatic, politicians want to start our own little race war. And start it will. They have created a climate of fear and resentment for all hispanics in the state. We have sold out the soul of our government, thrown away our moral compass and let loose the jack boots of a police state on a good portion of our citizens. In Germany it was the Jews. In Iraq it's the Kurds, In Yugoslavia it was the Bosnians. In Arizona it is the Hispanic. It's all the same. Every day is a new day but the sun still rises in the east. Nothing changes, yet everything does. I already see the fear and anger in the community where I live. I hear the angry bluster from the whites in conversation and the look of fear in the latino faces whom I've known for years and are here legally. No matter how you soft pedal it, it is more than just an ID check. It is the cornerstone of a dangerous movement building in America that threatens us all, in the end. Rest assured, the far right neocon movement will exploit it in every way possible.
Why do you pro-illegals keep repeating the same old lies? LE will not be able to stop anyone unless they have violated a law. When they are asked for I.D. if they can't produce a valid one then and only then will they be questioned about their status in this country. That is not racial profiling. Hispanic citizens will have nothing to fear.
You're missing his/her point, what if they're not an illegal alien and let's say they were even born and raised here, then their rights have been violated.
How have their rights been violated? Under this new law LE cannot question anyone's status in this country unless they have first been caught violating a law and only if they cannot produce valid I.D. will they be then questioned about their status in this country.
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