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Part of the reason for wearing masks in Asian countries was the high level of pollution from manufacturing and little in way of pollution controls. It is not entirely due to virus or disease.
Also, the big difference I see with this virus vs the flu season, is there are so many asymptomatic spreaders of this virus. Other viruses usually have much more noticeable symptoms. Sure, people to an extent will still go out when they are sick, but you can't stop everything. But with this virus nobody knows if they might have it, so masks make sense.
I'm all for wearing masks while this virus is an issue. But if it falls to low levels or becomes something more akin to a common cold, then no I will no longer wear one and don't support them being made permanent whatsoever. If someone wants to wear a mask because they need to go out in public, but feel sick, then I support that. But don't make everyone have to wear one.
One of the prior posts talked about making this a sunset law, and I agree with that idea.
Masks were mandated with fines or jailtime in some cities during the 1918 pandemic. I don't know of anyone still wearing them after that pandemic ended up until now. Don't really see why this would be different.
OK, since there is an abundance of COVID 19 and mask wearing threads; I'll be very clear about the purpose of this thread. To moderators, let me know if this particular topic has been addressed already.
The question here concerns the legal aspect of mandating masks. The primary concern is: When the pandemic ends, next month or next decade, will the rules about wearing masks ever be rescinded?
Think of every law, rule, policy, and ordinance that has been enacted in response to a threat. Be it war, disease, or corruption; and ask yourself: Has any of these ever been repealed or rescinded after the threat had ended?
It seems once a politician has enacted new policy. It just gets forgotten, forever to be left in place under threat of criminal action.
Thoughts?
About a year ago the argument was to force the showing of the face as some cultures through social pressure forced women to hide their face. The thought was for public safety the government and citizens needed that biometric data.
So that is now over. I believe we will not get to the point where governments will force us to be unmasked. Some will continue to hide their face everywhere and the question will become will we be able to force the unmasking for a photo ID, or what good is a photo ID if the person is never unmasked.
However I don't think governments will force the mask on all, not just women, except in specified higher risk locations
That would never have happen because the American mentality is that they don't care about other people and their health. I hope this mask thing isn't the future.
People can't afford to stay home if they are sick. They aren't paid enough and insurance sucks.
Not only that, but some employers expect you to show up even if you are on your death bed. They don't care that you might infect your co-workers, or that you need time off to see a doctor or care for a sick child. Children are sent to school with the sniffles, which are then passed along to other students, and eventually to the parents who must go to work at all costs (both due to economic concerns and strict employers.)
There will always be sick people in public. Wearing masks may be the only answer to protect others, since few will take it upon themselves to keep others from getting sick. As disturbing as it may be, people are stupid and will take chances with their own lives as well as with others. That's why there are seat belt laws and helmet laws. Sadly, there may need to be mask laws as well.
Not only that, but some employers expect you to show up even if you are on your death bed. They don't care that you might infect your co-workers, or that you need time off to see a doctor or care for a sick child. Children are sent to school with the sniffles, which are then passed along to other students, and eventually to the parents who must go to work at all costs (both due to economic concerns and strict employers.)
There will always be sick people in public. Wearing masks may be the only answer to protect others, since few will take it upon themselves to keep others from getting sick. As disturbing as it may be, people are stupid and will take chances with their own lives as well as with others. That's why there are seat belt laws and helmet laws. Sadly, there may need to be mask laws as well.
The difference in those situations you describe vs. the current situation with COVID-19 is the former would be to protect yourself while the latter is about preventing people who may be carrying the virus but don't know it from infecting others. A good analogy is requiring full insurance coverage on all vehicles vs. requiring only liability coverage.
I don’t understand why some people are worried that “mask laws” will remain in effect long after COVID ceases to be a threat.
Who stands to gain from this masked society? Is Big Mask now a major player in DC, lobbying for permanent mask-wearing?
No one stands to benefit from enforcing mask-wearing when we are no longer facing a pandemic. I don’t know what the laws are in every state, but I’m pretty sure the laws only apply in businesses and enclosed spaces like public transit, government offices, etc. Or are they being mandated outdoors as well?
Personally, I think that masks becoming a political issue is insane. I remember the early days of the CO VID pandemic on this board, when many of the right-leaning posters were convinced it was the Democrats and MSM colluding to create a hysteria that would damage Trump. Then thousands of people started getting sick and dying, but some still clung to the belief that it was overblown and no worse than a cold or flu. By the time 100,000 Americans had died from the disease, it was impossible to say it was a hoax, so a new narrative started on the right. Only the old and sick needed to worry. Everyone else needed to calm the hell down and go back to work. And so it was. Most states reopened during May and June and now the US is seeing 50,000+new cases per day. It’s no longer possible to simply blame “liberals” like DeBlasio because this wave is hitting many red states hardest.
Meanwhile, tests have shown that wearing a mask significantly reduces the spread of this disease. Sure, if one person is wearing a mask in a store filled with maskless people, that mask may not do much unless it’s an N95, but if everyone is wearing a mask, the risk of infection drops significantly (one study I read said 70%) Wearing a mask is uncomfortable, especially in the summer, but I think that having COVID is probably much more uncomfortable. And while a statistically significant % of people who get COVID have few or no symptoms, it has proven to be far deadlier than the flu, and even if your don’t end up in the hospital, there is a good chance your are going to be very sick for 2-3 weeks, with many sufferers feeling effects months after they test negative. So while the mask is uncomfortable, it just makes sense to wear it.
To circle back to the topic of this thread, no one stands to gain from wearing masks except the people who wear them. In countries that are less obsessed with individualism, wearing a mask when you’re sick is just a common-sense thing to do. As another poster (Jade something-or-other) pointed out, this is the norm in many East Asian cultures, where family and community are valued just as much as individual freedoms and desires. Notice something about those places? Despite getting hit early by COVID, they have very few cases, while the US is number one in the world. I find that insane. As a first generation immigrant from the US, I spent a lot of my childhood and youth there and wanted to move to New York or another American city so much when I was in my 20’s. The US represented the very best of everything - it was wealthy, forward-thinking, democratic, a world leader in just about everything. Now it’s a world leader in COVID cases because...well, I don’t have to remind anyone how it got this way.
So mask-wearing after COVID? It’s hard enough to get people to wear them in the middle of this plague. I don’t see it ever happening. During cold and flu season, wearing a mask at the office, in shops, and on public transportation makes sense if you are sick. It protects the people around you. But it seems that In the minds of many, personal freedom and personal responsibility cannot co-exist. It’s a zero-sum game for too many.
I wish people could simply follow the experts rather than a commentator on an infortainment channel. Experts do get things wrong, but they are also willing to admit it and change course when the evidence shows that they made an error.
Most Americans used to believe in science and expertise. Now, somehow, experts are distrusted by many, who think a political commentator with no expertise in anything is a more reliable source.
Big Mask does not exist; the government is not going to force you to wear a mask after COVID (hell, they can barely get people to do it in the middle of this plague); no one gains anything by forcing mask-wearing on the public...except the public themselves.
...
Masks were mandated with fines or jailtime in some cities during the 1918 pandemic. I don't know of anyone still wearing them after that pandemic ended up until now. Don't really see why this would be different.
The difference is that in 1918 we didn't have OSHA, or seat belts, or much of a safety-culture. It was not abnormal for a child to die in infancy. Life expectancy was shorter. Dangers of smoking or lead were unknown. Life was suffused with dangers, and expectations of danger. Manufacturing didn't know and didn't care about worker safety. And so on. Expectations were lower, and in particular, in the tradeoff between safety and productivity, productivity almost invariably won.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TOkidd
Who stands to gain from this masked society? Is Big Mask now a major player in DC, lobbying for permanent mask-wearing?
Well, who benefits from more stringent drunk driving laws? Remember, that as recently as 1980, drunk driving was regarded as a minor and forgivable foible. Today it's a heinous crime. Is there a Big Anti-Drunk Driving corporate lobby? I doubt it. Instead, it's a question of public reaction, and public clamoring. If we have permanent mask-laws, it's because a significant slice of the public desires it. We already saw numerous persons in this thread, and similar threads, who advocate for mass-masking as a sensible precaution during any flu season, perennially.
Or consider: which companies, lobby-groups or government agencies benefit from anti-nudity laws? Is it Fruit of the Loom? Hanes? "Big Cloth"? And yet, nearly anywhere and everywhere, we have to wear pants or skirts. Why? It's become a cultural norm (arguably, it has been a cultural norm since the Neolithic Revolution).
My worry is that masks are going to become a new cultural norm.
That is a fair statement Bosox 15. hopefully these rules don't last in some form in perpetuity. The biggest thing is individual responsibility. As with the poster above I believe in individual responsibility. But that means those people have to understand the importance of protection, but still maintain the freedom to choose.
Many say your freedom stops where my health begins, that's why mask rules are necessary, but I argue on the flip end of the end coin. That our combined freedom allows you to choose to only hang out with people who wear masks. Enforcing rules on others for your comfort or health takes away from that individualism.
Yes. the chief focus of this thread is analyzing rules made by politicians. As such it will inevitably end up getting political. I hope to be active in this thread, to help moderate that a bit.
thank you for your input.
"Many say your freedom stops where my health begins, that's why mask rules are necessary, but I argue on the flip end of the end coin."
I agree! I detest this sentiment! So now I am responsible FOR YOU? I am responsible for the fact that you possibly have made lousy choices to your body and now I have to pay for that? I have to be responsible for the obese person who has decided to bask in gluttony? I have to be responsible for the 80 year old who chose to smoke 3 packs of cigarettes a day for most their life and now has a terrible respiratory issues? I have to be responsible for little Johnny and Katie who's only 8 years old and terribly overweight because their parents injected them with a terrible diet? How many people are we supposed to be responsible for when they make the choice and assume the risk of stepping out of their homes?
I'm not saying I don't care about others and I would say I am quite the considerate person. However, people have to assume the risk, know the risk of what they decide to partake in life. If I get sick or someone in my family gets sick (which has happened actually) I don't expect no one else to take care of them other then myself and the family, the tribe. I'm not going to get mad at the public for not doing their part for my or my families health. Granted, if they are a direct threat, that's different, otherwise, Personal responsibility!
I don’t understand why some people are worried that “mask laws” will remain in effect long after COVID ceases to be a threat. Who stands to gain from this masked society? Is Big Mask now a major player in DC, lobbying for permanent mask-wearing?
No one stands to benefit from enforcing mask-wearing when we are no longer facing a pandemic. I don’t know what the laws are in every state, but I’m pretty sure the laws only apply in businesses and enclosed spaces like public transit, government offices, etc. Or are they being mandated outdoors as well?
Personally, I think that masks becoming a political issue is insane. I remember the early days of the CO VID pandemic on this board, when many of the right-leaning posters were convinced it was the Democrats and MSM colluding to create a hysteria that would damage Trump. Then thousands of people started getting sick and dying, but some still clung to the belief that it was overblown and no worse than a cold or flu. By the time 100,000 Americans had died from the disease, it was impossible to say it was a hoax, so a new narrative started on the right. Only the old and sick needed to worry. Everyone else needed to calm the hell down and go back to work. And so it was. Most states reopened during May and June and now the US is seeing 50,000+new cases per day. It’s no longer possible to simply blame “liberals” like DeBlasio because this wave is hitting many red states hardest.
Meanwhile, tests have shown that wearing a mask significantly reduces the spread of this disease. Sure, if one person is wearing a mask in a store filled with maskless people, that mask may not do much unless it’s an N95, but if everyone is wearing a mask, the risk of infection drops significantly (one study I read said 70%) Wearing a mask is uncomfortable, especially in the summer, but I think that having COVID is probably much more uncomfortable. And while a statistically significant % of people who get COVID have few or no symptoms, it has proven to be far deadlier than the flu, and even if your don’t end up in the hospital, there is a good chance your are going to be very sick for 2-3 weeks, with many sufferers feeling effects months after they test negative. So while the mask is uncomfortable, it just makes sense to wear it.
To circle back to the topic of this thread, no one stands to gain from wearing masks except the people who wear them. In countries that are less obsessed with individualism, wearing a mask when you’re sick is just a common-sense thing to do. As another poster (Jade something-or-other) pointed out, this is the norm in many East Asian cultures, where family and community are valued just as much as individual freedoms and desires. Notice something about those places? Despite getting hit early by COVID, they have very few cases, while the US is number one in the world. I find that insane. As a first generation immigrant from the US, I spent a lot of my childhood and youth there and wanted to move to New York or another American city so much when I was in my 20’s. The US represented the very best of everything - it was wealthy, forward-thinking, democratic, a world leader in just about everything. Now it’s a world leader in COVID cases because...well, I don’t have to remind anyone how it got this way.
So mask-wearing after COVID? It’s hard enough to get people to wear them in the middle of this plague. I don’t see it ever happening. During cold and flu season, wearing a mask at the office, in shops, and on public transportation makes sense if you are sick. It protects the people around you. But it seems that In the minds of many, personal freedom and personal responsibility cannot co-exist. It’s a zero-sum game for too many.
I wish people could simply follow the experts rather than a commentator on an infortainment channel. Experts do get things wrong, but they are also willing to admit it and change course when the evidence shows that they made an error.
Most Americans used to believe in science and expertise. Now, somehow, experts are distrusted by many, who think a political commentator with no expertise in anything is a more reliable source.
Big Mask does not exist; the government is not going to force you to wear a mask after COVID (hell, they can barely get people to do it in the middle of this plague); no one gains anything by forcing mask-wearing on the public...except the public themselves.
"Who stands to gain from this masked society?"
There's ALWAYS people who gain from this, don't think that the government has our best interest. We are nothing but a dollar sign to them. I do believe that they are good people in government, I'm not saying every government official is a innately bad person. However, the "elites" gain from this, the more they can control every aspect of our lives, equals more financial benefit for them. They claim that they are doing what this and that for "our safety" but then "safety" turns into keeping us in check. Having us where they want us. And right now, its working like a charm!
It's not to say that mask can't be helpful but they aren't entirely bulletproof. Not all mask are created equal and there's lots of articles that talk about the downside to constant mask wearing.
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