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Now it feels like there's ample cause to feel guilty and to be receiving a bitterly harsh education. This means, among other things, unrelenting wearing of masks, as scarlet letters for having committed the offense of going about our ways merrily in January-February 2000, and more broadly, in being so individualistic.
I don't know, possibly, but to me it feels like today we are in a totally different mindset than we were twenty years ago. People seem a lot less inclined to accept responsibility for the consequences of their actions. Honestly I feel like most people (those who don't mask up) will shrug it off as 'fate', something outside of themselves, there won't be be any scarlet letters because there will be very little acknowledgement of the part they played and therefore little or no guilt.
This is one of the best, most rational discussions of the "mask question" I have ever seen. Props to the thread OP.
I have also been pondering if we did not just accidentally "safety-fear" ourselves into a new permanent policy ala Patriot Act. I know there is skepticism here that such a policy would be worth any politician's time, but you have to consider how people have essentially been re-wired by all the rampant fear.
Just look at what underpins the discussion here - "if you don't do this, you will kill people, maybe dozens". At the foundation of this is the idea that we must be afraid of each other's presence. This is not a minor change to how we, as a species, live. If we arrive at a place like this, we must make sure it's borne out by the facts. Is it?
To me, a factual discussion would distinguish the types of interactions that might require masking. Are there facts that indicate the virus does not transmit well in the absence of sustained proximal contact, or outdoors at all? Do we take these facts into consideration? Or are masks the norm everywhere, at all times, the moment you step outdoors, even if you're alone on the street walking the dog - or alone in your car?
In my experience, your answer will differ with your geography. Maybe part of that is because of population density. Or maybe it's because fear is preventing the application of facts. (Or the eternally less salacious, more correct answer: it's both.)
Thing is, if we've gotten into this new norm through fear, an irrational response, how do we get out of it? One might hope that factually informed discussion saves the day: that we look to studies and data analysis, rather than knee-jerk responsiveness to media anecdotes. But fear tends to be a one-way on-ramp.
To me, the danger is in treating the mask as a holy relic. What happens if everyone masks up and the virus runs rampant anyway? In California, which made masking a mandate at the end of May, there are signs this is exactly what's happening.
At that point, you have only two choices: you re-assess whether too little a difference is being made by this abrogation of freedom (rational choice- and maybe it's still worth it- but at least you asked) or you choose to sacrifice two virgins next season since one alone didn't end the drought (irrational, fear-driven choice). You decide, prior to actual evidence, that it must be because not enough people are wearing masks (I saw it on the news! They were in a bar elbow-to-elbow! The news would never misrepresent rare one-offs as things happening everywhere!) or that it must be better than it would without the masks.
Which would win the day? If fear - governance via media anecdotes and social media one-offs - was the first on-ramp, then unfortunately, it will also be the second on-ramp.
Perhaps our energy would be better served enacting national sick leave - for part-time as well as full-time workers - so that we can end the uniquely American phenomenon of being pressured to come in to work even when you're sick. Give me a choice between higher taxes to make that happen, or an evergreen national mask mandate, and I'll take the former in a heartbeat - not just on personal preference, but it would obviate so many of the situations where masking might help reduce transmission anyway.
Or perhaps our energy would be better spent examining what's wrong with our LTC industry and why they were death factories, especially here in the Northeast. But that would mean some serious self-reflection about how we treat our elderly. That's dangerously close to "collective guilt" territory. We don't want that. We want to watch the news and see stories about people in bars not wearing masks and feel morally superior.
I wonder if the best way forward isn't a compromise. Let people living in cities keep the masks forever, and let the smaller towns choose what they want. Relocate to your preference and carry on.
That's why decisions by the FAA and others against rule changes are so critical.
Maybe infection complications that develop over time from rebreathing exhaled lung waste into dew-soaked lower facial appliances, collapsed lungs, acne and other dermatitis, problems in facial identification, headaches and soporific effects, dating challenges, etc., may sway some of the neurotics back to sanity.
I don't see it happening. There are too many against wearing masks, and I think most that do, recognize they're doing it because of this pandemic. People may continue to wear masks if they are sick or for some other reason, but the population at large isn't going to do it when there's no more risk than normal. And a lot of businesses that are requiring them have made it clear that it is for the duration of the pandemic.
My daughter and grandkids are coming to stay with us (out of state) overnight. We certainly aren't going to be wearing masks around each other or sitting 6 feet away at dinner.
The boys want to go to this indoor "gym" type place; slides, bouncy house, climbing wall, etc.
I called and asked if the children were required to wear masks. She said No. Only the Adults. Then she added that you cannot have little children running, jumping, climbing wearing masks. While 6 year old will wear a mask, his 4 year brother will not at all. Well, does having a disability count for being maskless? He is on the Autism Spectrum.
Well, at least this place has some sense. Little children should NOT be wearing masks with all this exercise.
Edit: Daughter and I will wear masks in there but they will come off outside, and we won't be wearing them blueberry picking in the woods.
This is the one thing that terrifies me more than anything, the idea of having to wear masks forever.
I simply won't do it. If it means I have to go live in the north woods, totally isolated from the rest of humanity, I'll do it.
In the meantime, I'm not doing anything optional which requires a mask. That includes restaurants, shops and anything for entertainment. I'll wear a mask where required, but only for necessary purposes only - such as grocery stores, medical appointments and home stores, to carry out home repairs. Nothing else.
If they ever make masks mandatory for outdoors, I'll go into full rebel mode and organize anti-mask protests.
Thinking of doing that anyway come September - this is such a B.S. way to live.
I am happy I stumbled upon this thread. I was starting to get a little bit bored. I have weekends off.
I am one of those, I tell people..
"You know we are never going swimming again, right? Because people congregate on beaches, you can't swim with a mask on, and the virus is supposedly never going away. How do you know?"
"You know (insert major arena. MSG, Barclays, Las Vegas) - Are never opening back up to anything CLOSE to whatever they used to be, right? You can't shout through a mask, you can't eat with a mask on, and you can't breathe or see if it is too hot/cold. Plus those seats cost how many thousand bucks? For mask????"
"You know that they aren't going to give this mask stuff up, right? They simply have too much power over you.. They can now lock you up for walking down the street, just a little more legally now.."
"You know that.."
I have figured out a few weeks into this, that, there are simply too many people enjoying this absolute total control over society.
Wearing a mask outside DOES NOTHING. Wearing it inside.. Could be safe, yes, and businesses seem to require it (where is the first lawsuit for COVID negligence? Liability? DONT try to tell me it is NOT coming. God Bless America) but is mostly cute. The elderly are supposed to have designated shopping hours now.
Gee, whoever foisted this thing upon us (Fauci. Read about it.. if Google still lets you..) is THE GUY. Heh.
- Whoever did this really is hitting on all points and firing on all cylinders.
Then there is the talk of Trump won't get re-elected.. For three months, I would have agreed with you, but now he has to change the narrative, because, honestly, if you are pro-mask, you were NEVER voting for Trump, so he wasted three months going backwards on the highway. Wasted time. If he floors it he can pull it off but he has to want it...
So, in summary:
- If you don't want to wear a mask, don't wear a mask.
(Where I live, we don't wear masks outside VAST MAJORITY, the "cute" of people wearing masks in cars is a much less common occurence now though I still see it, it is called "virtue signaling," "Look, I am Down with the Clown so I am cool, look at my mask where I drive, wearing it so you can see me and like or dislike me", the police are no longer wearing masks unless they are standing outside MVC lol, and Ain't Nobody Got Time For That. I don't even wear one at my job and neither does anyone else that rolls in.)
- If it being illegal bothers you? See the above point.
- If you want to wear a mask.. wear a mask.
I'm not living the rest of my life with a mask on, either. I simply fear that we may be at that point.
My father says that this will "eventually die off" well as mentioned previously, some of us are so irrational now that I am not so sure.
You know what else SHOULD die off? BLM...
Defund or Dismantle the Police has died off already...
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If they ever make masks mandatory for outdoors, I'll go into full rebel mode and organize anti-mask protests.
NJ has already done this, so when the cops ride by, I make sure to turn and look at them. Sometimes they look at me, sometimes they do not. They don't have masks on and they don't stop.
BUT.. Don't wave at the police! Because, they could be cute.. They could say they thought you were waving for help, and then come and try to talk to you. Don't talk to Police.
I'm actually going to go out and walk around for about an hour right now. Should I photograph the police? I am bored, and it's not like I can't do that...
(Where I live, we don't wear masks outside VAST MAJORITY, the "cute" of people wearing masks in cars is a much less common occurence now though I still see it, it is called "virtue signaling," "Look, I am Down with the Clown so I am cool, look at my mask where I drive, wearing it so you can see me and like or dislike me"
It's also called the inconvenience of having to take the thing off and fiddle with it all over again when you get to your next stop two minutes down the road. I wear glasses, finding that sweet spot where the mask doesn't fog up is a PITA. I find I can't put much faith in the POV of people who can't seem to reason that out for themselves.
NJ has already done this, so when the cops ride by, I make sure to turn and look at them. Sometimes they look at me, sometimes they do not. They don't have masks on and they don't stop.
BUT.. Don't wave at the police! Because, they could be cute.. They could say they thought you were waving for help, and then come and try to talk to you. Don't talk to Police.
I'm actually going to go out and walk around for about an hour right now. Should I photograph the police? I am bored, and it's not like I can't do that...
I can't believe it's a requirement to wear masks outdoors. Glad it's not enforced - if it was, I bet the police would have their hands full. Not to mention the courts.
The cops here never have masks on, either. They never social distance, either - whenever you see more than 2 cops standing around, it's always a football huddle.
There is yet a requirement for Post Office workers to wear masks - the clerk at my local branch was a staunch no-masker until our country did a mask ordinance. Will have to check back in a few days (I walk past it all the time, I just peek inside) to see if she's still wearing it.
Our governor said give it 4 weeks. Others say give it 6-8 weeks. So, let's see how things are around Labor Day. If the virus is still rocking and rolling, then we know this mask thing just isn't working. I doubt that it will. The virus will go away when it wants to go way, and not a moment sooner.
One thing is for sure - once I get my shot (hopefully December), I'm gonna burn my mask and post a vid of it to social media, making a point of not ever wearing one ever again. I hope to inspire others to do the same.
I can't believe it's a requirement to wear masks outdoors. Glad it's not enforced - if it was, I bet the police would have their hands full. Not to mention the courts.
NJ only requires it where people are unable to socially distance the required six feet from each other outdoors, and family members aren't required to social distance from each other.
Quote:
One thing is for sure - once I get my shot (hopefully December), I'm gonna burn my mask and post a vid of it to social media, making a point of not ever wearing one ever again. I hope to inspire others to do the same.
We may have to wait quite a bit longer past December to burn those face masks...
"Dr. Anthony Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, reminded Americans that even if a vaccine candidate gets through the testing process and is successful by the end of the year, it will be several months before vaccination is widespread across the US."
Source: https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/24/healt...day/index.html
OK, since there is an abundance of COVID 19 and mask wearing threads; I'll be very clear about the purpose of this thread. To moderators, let me know if this particular topic has been addressed already.
The question here concerns the legal aspect of mandating masks. The primary concern is: When the pandemic ends, next month or next decade, will the rules about wearing masks ever be rescinded?
Think of every law, rule, policy, and ordinance that has been enacted in response to a threat. Be it war, disease, or corruption; and ask yourself: Has any of these ever been repealed or rescinded after the threat had ended?
It seems once a politician has enacted new policy. It just gets forgotten, forever to be left in place under threat of criminal action.
Thoughts?
Unless federal and state/provincial governments pass and enact laws requiring mask and face coverings to be worn in public, wearing masks and face coverings will be up to individuals who need to wear them to avoid being contagious.
It's also called the inconvenience of having to take the thing off and fiddle with it all over again when you get to your next stop two minutes down the road. I wear glasses, finding that sweet spot where the mask doesn't fog up is a PITA. I find I can't put much faith in the POV of people who can't seem to reason that out for themselves.
I wear glasses and I also dislike wearing it because it sometimes fogs up.. So why would you leave it on longer?
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Glad it's not enforced - if it was, I bet the police would have their hands full. Not to mention the courts.
