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The fact that parents have no say whether their underage children can keep their kids or not, doesn't convince me of anything.
I think parents have the right to decide whether or not their underage children can get abortions, or whether or not they can give their kids up for adoption.
We don't let minors drink alcohol, rent cars, etc. yet we think it's ok for them to pop out kids or get abortions with no parental say in the matter
And why should they have a say? All you do is get overbearing parents who don't believe in abortion, usually through some belief in an archaic religous system to push their views on their child. Whats next parents need to sign off on bc too? I wonder what most of you will say then when the teen birth explodes after that. You can't tell kids they are mature enough for the deed...yet what happens after now the parents have to decide for you? And if you don't want the child....tough deal with it and raise is even if you aren't ready.
Actually teen pregnancies have been decreasing since roe v wade you had a brief spike in the late 80s and early 90's which could possibly be tied to a long period of conservative policies promoting abstinence....you see a similar spike the last few years during bushes last term. And abortions have been cut 50 percent since the late 70's....so your data might be a bit off there. And while i agree it's irritating to help them out....part of being a society is being socially responsible...and since most people are selfish...you have to help people through taxes. It doesn't make much sense to punish the mother if the child gets it too does it?
Actually, both you and NUTZ are off on the abortion statistics.
Both the number and rate of abortions in the US peaked around 1980. Since the early 1980s, the number and rate of abortions per number of women age 15-44 has been slowly declining.
In 2005, there were 1.21 million abortions in the US. Even if you think it should be legal (which I do), it should still be seen as a horror that we should make every effort to prevent the need for. And handing out condoms/birth control in the schools with no ethical context is not my idea of pregnancy prevention.
When your child comes home pregnant, you have pretty much already failed at parenting. So, when the time comes to get an abortion...........NOW you want to be a parent?
Your child got pregnant without your consent............she should be able to get an abortion without your consent.
As far as handing out b/c goes, that should only be a part of the package.
Children should be taught about sex and encouraged to abstain. But, they should also be taught about birth control and have the ability to get it if they need it.
Children should also be taught just how hard it is and how much money it takes to raise a child and how having a child in their teen years will severely limit their options for the rest of their lives.
Children also need to be taught these things in school since way too many parents fail to do so.
Actually, both you and NUTZ are off on the abortion statistics.
Both the number and rate of abortions in the US peaked around 1980. Since the early 1980s, the number and rate of abortions per number of women age 15-44 has been slowly declining.
In 2005, there were 1.21 million abortions in the US. Even if you think it should be legal (which I do), it should still be seen as a horror that we should make every effort to prevent the need for. And handing out condoms/birth control in the schools with no ethical context is not my idea of pregnancy prevention.
Im not off, i never said it had dropped since the 70's just that it had been slashed since that time frame. And what is wrong with access to bc in school? And if not what do you think would work better?
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8,309 posts, read 38,768,892 times
Reputation: 7185
Quote:
Originally Posted by paganmama80
Really a 16 Is considered mature enough to have sex in many state the very thing that got them in that position in the first place, but they are now not mature enough to deal with the consequences? That same 16 year old can get bc in a majority of states....and in fact none require the parents permission. We say they are mature enough for that....but somehow them deciding to be mature and not bringing a life into this world is not something they can handle? Please....this is why the rest of the world laughs at us over this and why our teen birth rate is so astronomical.
I have to point out that you're changing tack in midstream a bit, but that's neither here nor there.
Do you really believe there is some sort of congruency between being able to elect to have consensual intercourse and/or purchase and use birth control and adult competency? "Age of consent" has nothing to do with legal adulthood and everything to do with rape statutes.
With regard to the availability of birth control: What reason in HELL would there be to not have condoms available to any kid with three dollars in his/her pocket and why in the HELL would that make him/her any more of an adult or give him/her any more right to an abortion without parental consent? I don't have the slightest clue how I would respond if my daughter turned up pregnant, but I'm her father and I have to know what is happening in her life and until she's taking care of herself all authority rests with her mother and me. It's not a gray area, that's how it has to be.
Incidentally, anyone laughing at the United States is laughing because of the degradation of our family culture - not the teen birth rate. Putting responsibility and independence in the hands of children isn't going to fix anything, it's enabling - not parenting.
I have to point out that you're changing tack in midstream a bit, but that's neither here nor there.
Do you really believe there is some sort of congruency between being able to elect to have consensual intercourse and/or purchase and use birth control and adult competency? "Age of consent" has nothing to do with legal adulthood and everything to do with rape statutes.
With regard to the availability of birth control: What reason in HELL would there be to not have condoms available to any kid with three dollars in his/her pocket and why in the HELL would that make him/her any more of an adult or give him/her any more right to an abortion without parental consent? I don't have the slightest clue how I would respond if my daughter turned up pregnant, but I'm her father and I have to know what is happening in her life and until she's taking care of herself all authority rests with her mother and me. It's not a gray area, that's how it has to be.
Incidentally, anyone laughing at the United States is laughing because of the degradation of our family culture - not the teen birth rate. Putting responsibility and independence in the hands of children isn't going to fix anything, it's enabling - not parenting.
Regardless of the point of age of consent laws the fact is we regard teens with some level of maturity in which to have sex don't we? If not we would make bc and condoms much harder to get no, and make the aoc 21? And yes i do think it is avalible ...and yes i do agree kids should use it. But why if they take the mature road would you want to trump that? Most kids are going to talk to their parents about it....but there are a lot of parents who either will go nuts over the fact their child is having sex....or nuts that she wants to abort. And for what reason should you need to sign off on your daughter making a mature descision? Most parents would allow her to do the right think. But what of the ones who decide "hey thats a life you have to give birth" ?And you think so....why don't you talk to people from Europe, i can assure you my friend they laugh at our views in regards to sex. And their kids are far more independent, and also much more mature, and have less in the way of problems. Maybe our methods are not working you think?
Children are children - and usually until 18 years of age, parents are responsible, legally, for that CHILD'S actions. If a child becomes ill, the parent must approve of the medical care to be given (with exceptions made for life saving emergencies).
An abortion is a medical procedure. There is no question about that. The parent has the RIGHT TO KNOW about ANY medical procedure that THEIR child will receive.
If for some reason a child is truly concerned about parental involvement in the decision to have an abortion, there are methods, legal, that can be used in those rare cases.
Parental Consent should be mandatory and thankfully, in many states, it is.
Location: Visitation between Wal-Mart & Home Depot
8,309 posts, read 38,768,892 times
Reputation: 7185
Quote:
Originally Posted by paganmama80
Regardless of the point of age of consent laws the fact is we regard teens with some level of maturity in which to have sex don't we? If not we would make bc and condoms much harder to get no, and make the aoc 21? And yes i do think it is avalible ...and yes i do agree kids should use it. But why if they take the mature road would you want to trump that? Most kids are going to talk to their parents about it....but there are a lot of parents who either will go nuts over the fact their child is having sex....or nuts that she wants to abort. And for what reason should you need to sign off on your daughter making a mature descision? Most parents would allow her to do the right think. But what of the ones who decide "hey thats a life you have to give birth" ?And you think so....why don't you talk to people from Europe, i can assure you my friend they laugh at our views in regards to sex. And their kids are far more independent, and also much more mature, and have less in the way of problems. Maybe our methods are not working you think?
A child who has become pregnant and is attempting to proceed with an abortion without her parents' knowledge or consent is not likely to be on the mature road. I would want to sign off on any such decision in order to protect my child from what she doesn't know and, I might add, there isn't a "right thing" between carrying to term and aborting a pregnancy. There sure as hell isn't any pride to be found in an abortion; it's still ultimately eliminating a potential sentient out of convenience. It's an option that needs to be available, but it's horrible; don't glorify what it is.
I have to point out that you're changing tack in midstream a bit, but that's neither here nor there.
Do you really believe there is some sort of congruency between being able to elect to have consensual intercourse and/or purchase and use birth control and adult competency? "Age of consent" has nothing to do with legal adulthood and everything to do with rape statutes.
With regard to the availability of birth control: What reason in HELL would there be to not have condoms available to any kid with three dollars in his/her pocket and why in the HELL would that make him/her any more of an adult or give him/her any more right to an abortion without parental consent? I don't have the slightest clue how I would respond if my daughter turned up pregnant, but I'm her father and I have to know what is happening in her life and until she's taking care of herself all authority rests with her mother and me. It's not a gray area, that's how it has to be.
Incidentally, anyone laughing at the United States is laughing because of the degradation of our family culture - not the teen birth rate. Putting responsibility and independence in the hands of children isn't going to fix anything, it's enabling - not parenting.
Really? So, if your daughter ended up pregnant, are we to assume you knew she was having sex and condoned it?
Didn't think so.
Once you have failed as a parent and your daughter is pregnant, why should you be able to step in after the fact when it comes to deciding how to handle the pregnancy?
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