Is Interstate 14 Dead? (Atlanta, Columbus, Savannah: low income, house, income)

[mike7586]

I think I-3 would be a waste of money and I-14 makes sense only if they build the entire route from Georgia to Texas.

In terms of high speed rail, the only route that I think makes sense right now is Atlanta to Charlotte, then Charlotte to Raleigh, and Raleigh to Washington DC.

In the future, I could see Atlanta to Macon to Savannah and possibly Atlanta to Macon to Orlando. I think Macon and Savannah both need to grow a lot more, but who knows, maybe high speed rail could help them do just that? They both could use an economic boost.

[testa50]

Originally Posted by Southernbill

If the state of GA were really serious about rail it could easily build rail without having to pay astronomical prices for right of way just place it in the center median of interstates outside of most metro areas most of the overpasses are outdated and need replacing just remove the center columns and lay track 75 and 95 would be the exceptions due to widening projects that removed or narrowed the center median. Think of what it cost to widen 95 and 75 throughout the state from 2 lanes in each direction to 3. I'm sure most citizens along this route would give that extra lane back for a train any day. By now GA could have a Savannah-Jacksonville route, a Chattanooga-Atlanta-Macon-Valdosta route, and with the 2 proposed routes you would have Augusta-Savannah possibly Dalton-Gainesville-Athens-Augusta-Statesboro-Savannah/Jacksonville depending on the route, and Columbus-Macon-Milledgeville-Augusta route. The state has invested in commuter rail line routes into Metro Atlanta (abandoned rail lines bought and currently or planned to be rehabilitated) and other parts of the state so that could be used there.

Interstates have grades and curves that are far, far outside of acceptable ranges for trains. Next time you're on a road that follows a train line, look at how flat the tracks are in comparison to the road.

Once you get below the fall line, this might work.

[Southernbill]

Originally Posted by testa50

Interstates have grades and curves that are far, far outside of acceptable ranges for trains. Next time you're on a road that follows a train line, look at how flat the tracks are in comparison to the road.

Once you get below the fall line, this might work.

I just saying GA could have easily created something similar to this throughout the state
Marta North line
Highway to Buckhead Financial District | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/44124573@N00/2599548240/lightbox/ - broken link)

http://web.presby.edu/~jtbell/transi...th/Freeway.jpg

http://web.presby.edu/~jtbell/transi.../Tollbooth.jpg

Chicago
http://www.canhighways.com/IL/I/94/I...cl_54_west.jpg

http://www.canhighways.com/IL/I/94/I...cl_54_east.jpg

[toll_booth]

Originally Posted by River_Dawg

Lets get a vote

Interstate 3 or Interstate 14

I would lean towards I-14 simply because it divert traffic away from Atlanta, which benefits all other cities in the state.

Besides the unresolved naming glitch (I still say it should be I-89 or I-91), I have a few questions for proponents of I-3:

1. How much would it cost?
2. What's wrong with the current routes, particularly for I-3? Look at an atlas--Savannah-to-Knoxville is a fairly straight shot up Interstates 95, 26, and 40. I-3 would roughly be a parallel route. And there is no question that once it gets into mountainous territory, it would have to follow a winding, snaky route, which would increase the total length.
3. How many people really travel between Savannah and Augusta, as compared with Atlanta and any of Georgia's medium-sized metro areas (such as, again, Savannah and Augusta)?
4. If people really want that highway, would they be open to the possibility of a toll highway, so that construction won't come out of the federal budget?

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by Southernbill

I just saying GA could have easily created something similar to this throughout the state
Marta North line
Highway to Buckhead Financial District | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/44124573@N00/2599548240/lightbox/ - broken link)

http://web.presby.edu/~jtbell/transit/images/Atlanta/North/Freeway.jpg

http://web.presby.edu/~jtbell/transit/images/Atlanta/North/Tollbooth.jpg

Chicago
http://www.canhighways.com/IL/I/94/I...cl_54_west.jpg

http://www.canhighways.com/IL/I/94/I...cl_54_east.jpg

Let me go further on the comment Testa was making....

There are different rail proposals... so when you talk about a state rail plan several things need to be considered.

The state rail plan has two components 1) Commuter rail in Atlanta Metro and N. Georgia (Athens, Gainesville, Macon, etc) 2) regional service to connect cities (a couple of trains a day) ... (Augusta, Savannah, Albany, Columbus added to the cities with commuter rail service).

Under both of these components it will be using --existing-- freight tracks new rail ROW isn't required. (There will be small amounts for stations, storage yards, a few passing tracks, curve reducing, but for the most part the track is laid. The way they get away with this.... Take the Atlanta-Macon example as it will be the busiest route in the network. There are actually two Norfolk-Southern freight tracks running on two different ROW between Macon and Atlanta. One is a mainline and the other is a lower speed (aprox 30 mph) service/delivery track. The state DOT would add improvements to the existing track/RR crossings to allow for 79 mph/mainline operations on the second/slower track. This will add capacity for passenger and mainline freight rail between Macon and Atlanta.

Now take the national HSR plan. That would require new right of way. Testa is right... our freeways have two problems: 1) They are too curvy 2) the grade (incline) is too much/too hilly for a mainline train with a 79 mph speed limit much less a HSR train operating 150+ mph.

Urban transit/in the city (Aka HRT/LRT). That is possible, but we would still need to buy right of way to widen an existing freeway. They operate at slower speeds already and have shorter/smaller train cars to deal with curvier rails. They also have to slow down at certain spots. They are also waaay too expensive to seriously consider for state-wide service.

Also within Chicago ... remember
-Their land is flat
-Many of their urban expresses ways were built around/along existing freight and transit rail right of ways. (not the opposite) or were constructed/reconstructed together at the same time (expensive and still requires lots of right of way)

[nortonguy]

The state rail plans only include Athens, Macon, Savannah, Atlanta, and Augusta... I'm not sure why Columbus wasn't added...

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by nortonguy

The state rail plans only include Athens, Macon, Savannah, Atlanta, and Augusta... I'm not sure why Columbus wasn't added...

Actually Columbus is included. Albeit, it has a lower priority route, which might be why you could have seen a source not include it/mention it. I'm not sure what the issues are on the current track(freight operator, quality, capacity, etc..) on the route, but it would actually join the track between Macon and Atlanta in Griffin. It's a 78 mile extension to Griffin. Projections have it being the second highest intercity ridership to Atlanta next to Macon.

Keeping in mind the plan is using existing tracks. It is an odd meandering route. A train would have to switch tracks 3 times (3 turns). I suspect the tracks might need more attention to get a 79 mph speed limit, but I don't really know.

[nortonguy]

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

Actually Columbus is included. Albeit, it has a lower priority route, which might be why you could have seen a source not include it/mention it. I'm not sure what the issues are on the current track(freight operator, quality, capacity, etc..) on the route, but it would actually join the track between Macon and Atlanta in Griffin. It's a 78 mile extension to Griffin. Projections have it being the second highest intercity ridership to Atlanta next to Macon.

Keeping in mind the plan is using existing tracks. It is an odd meandering route. A train would have to switch tracks 3 times (3 turns). I suspect the tracks might need more attention to get a 79 mph speed limit, but I don't really know.

Are you reffering to the GA rail loop??? I haven't seen Columbus mention once in any of the articles... It might have to do with Columbus being a lower priority route...

FRA Accepts Applications for State High-Speed Rail Planning « The Transport Politic
Atlanta-Savannah high speed rail loop? *| ajc.com
State seeking federal funds for high-speed rail loop | Atlanta Business Chronicle
Georgia High Speed Rail (http://www.wctv.tv/gms/headlines/94548854.html - broken link)

[River_Dawg]

I think they could expand that loop out to Columbus. Its soon will have the second largest population of any city in the state courtesy of the military.

[Columbus1984]

Originally Posted by River_Dawg

I think they could expand that loop out to Columbus. Its soon will have the second largest population of any city in the state courtesy of the military.