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My mother family hails from Zevenaar in the Gelderland province. Though we live in an overwhelming 'Anglo-Saxon-cultured nation', my grandparents made sure that we learned how to speak Dutch. This made easy for me in my trips with my parents in the early 1990's to the Netherlands, Belgium, I was able to understand when people spoke to me and was able to answer back. In Germany, many things written I was able to read or at least understand the meaning of many things. One of the things that marked my mind about the Netherlands, apart from the magnificent tulip fields, narrow roads, are the old-fashioned windmills so picturesque and so Dutch. The people at least to my knowledge seem quite friendly and ready to speak English, if they knew you were a foreigner. One thing my grandmother told me was that 'God created the world, but the Dutch created the Netherlands.'
I prefer "As a finishing touch, God created the Dutch"
P.S. Zevenaar is not far from where I grew up, maybe 20 minutes by car
It seems some of the original intent of the thread starter was lost along the way. As I was trying to say, and although of course I'm highly interested in the relation between Dutch and German cultures, this thread's focus is on 'triangulating' the Netherlands with France (say, as representing Continental culture), Denmark/Sweden/Norway/Finland (Nordic culture group) and the UK (Anglo Saxon cultural legacy).
A simple practical formulation of it would be the following: If you knew Dutch culture well and put yourself for the first time in some random spot (or you fix one hypothetically) in these countries, say seriatem, which of them would seem most like the Netherlands: the UK, France or Denmark (or use other Nordic)... As to the grander purpose such an exercise serves -- as some seem preoccupied to figure out -- one might find some guidance in my other CD posts/threads, and in possible future threads where I spell this matter out in context.
I'd like to thank several of the posters (and have with rep in some cases) for some astute and useful contributions. Actually everything is/has been useful in its own, ahem, way. Below are reactions to some specific quotes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LindavG
I can tell the difference. The Netherlands = progressive, internationally-oriented, entrepreneurial, laid back, monarchist. Germany = conservative, nationally-oriented, industrious, serious (disciplined), republican. The differences go far beyond cuisine. The Netherlands has far more in common with any of the Scandinavian countries than with Germany. Of course there are plenty of things that The Netherlands shares with Germany but these are more general Germanic features.
This is interesting in its own right and probably will get woven into a new thread eventually focused on NL and D. And although it wasn't the stated purpose of the thread, I would be intrigued to know here and now in more detail what support you have for the notion of "far more in common with any of the Scandinavian countries than Germany," which might include, for example, evidence of how Swedish progressiveness is somehow more progressive than Germany's, or for that matter, how Swedes are any less or more 'serious' or 'disciplined' than Germans are, or for that matter how much more laid-back the Dutch are than Germans. The fact of monarchy, for instance, is noted, but I'm generally here referring to culture and hence data cast in psychological/ sociological/ behavioral forms, rather than institutional formations which after all can lag by decades (centuries!) the psychosocial reality in any given place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LindavG
The Netherlands was an independent country centuries before Germany was. It has its own history, its own language, its own cuisine, its own traditions. So while Dutch culture is certainly Germanic, it's far from "German".
While this is, in general, constuctive in the way I caveated the OP, it doesn't address the main question and therefore I include it here as an example of what I'm not interested in. As I hope is now crystal clear, I'm NOT asking about the relation of Dutch to German language, culture or history. On the contrary, Germany/German culture may be left aside, unless to specify what, for instance, "Continental" means culturally. Obviously, one's answers would depend on how Continental, Nordic etc. are defined, and I have purposely left that up to the posters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyAndRugby
Now here's my question, why are others so obsessed about such issues? What does it matter?... Why are you asking this? Why does it even matter?
Well, my bio's in the mail... But in the meantime, here's my answer: Why are others obsessed with people's motives? What do they matter? In this thread I am primarily concerned with what's pertinent to the specific questions animating the original post.
Last edited by parrhesiastes; 08-18-2013 at 11:49 PM..
Dutch are a lot like danish people, maybe even more fun open and internationally oriented (nor that the danes arent), but still the similarities are quite high for two countries who havent had much direct contact recently. danish are more clanish in comparison.
I've dated both Dutch and Danish so I kind of notice how those cultures are really similar, bike oriented, both are famous for high design and laid back attitudes.
People in Belgium are different, more into themselves , Its noticeable how much dutch people behave different from flemish, where people rarely talk to strangers they dont know, the dutch can be more loud and forward with people they barely know in comparisson to their flemish counterparts.
Location: Near Tours, France about 47°10'N 0°25'E
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parrhesiastes
Acknowledging the distinctive richness (in the European context of course) of the Dutch society, and taking for granted that the Dutch are, broadly speaking, already particularly "German/Germanic," are the Dutch then OTHERWISE closer culturally to Danes, Brits, or the French? (If, for some reasons which you'll make clear, you'd prefer to challenge the German assumption, that might be constructive too.)
Also, one might phrase it this way: Are the Dutch, culturally, more Nordic, Continental or Anglo-Saxon --holding aside the fact that they're obviously quite physically already on the Continent proper (howsoever tenuously!).
All responses appreciated, and thanks in advance!
Danes and British are also culturally Germanic (germanic is only a linguistic-cultural concept by the way), as much as German or Dutch are. "Germanic" doesn't reffers to the country called "Germany" in English but to all Germanic speaking countries of Europe. the Germanic and Protestant based countries consitutute what we could call the "northern European culture", which includes clearly Dutch, Danish, northern German, English, etc. cultures.
Among those northern European cultures, I found the Dutch culture to be somehow intermediary between northern German and English culture; which is quite logical in relation to its geographical position.
I don't really wnat what you mean by "continental"? I guess this concept is usually used to contrast typically British things compared to the rest of Europe... The term is often seen as an opposition between islands and mainland: In France, "continental" is used to contrast Corsica and mainland France. So most European countries are "continental" from Germany to Spain, from France to Poland, etc... I guess you thought something else?
What you meant in your mind with "continental culture"?
Well, my bio's in the mail... But in the meantime, here's my answer: Why are others obsessed with people's motives? What do they matter? In this thread I am primarily concerned with what's pertinent to the specific questions animating the original post.
Obsessed?
I don't see anyone being obsessed. But this forum has a lot of threads like "what is that culture like", "which culture is similar to which" and so on. Those are questions that very few Europeans concern themselves with. We don't care who we resemble, what we look like, where we adapted some parts of our culture. We just are who we are.
But it's nice to know that if you ask why someone else wants to know who you are, you are OBSESSED with their motives.
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