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Just based on what I have gone through, I would say wait to get another. Once the immediate pain is over, a new dog will help you distract yourself, as it will Sammy. Sammy will tell you when it's time. My Alixe was lonely and kept looking for Charlie - so I went a day later and got Pete. It was a god-send to me as well. You get so busy easing a new dog into the household that you don't have time to stop and think about the late one.
When Alixe had to go, very old and infirm, I took Pete w/us and he was there. He sniffed her once or twice and then was ready to leave. I don't know if that helped him or not. He became very anxious after that. I had to wait before getting him another friend and his anxiety was getting worse.
in simple language, the surgeon made a line down the top of tillie's nose, cut it open and cleaned out the cancer as best he could. i believe it was called a turbinectomy as it cleaned out the turbinates. (i hope that;'s right.) it is known to be a very messy i.e. bloody surgery and one doctor we spoke to wouldn't do it. our vet who is a well known surgeon in LA has done many of them. I don't remember how many weeks tillie had to stay crated so as not to open up the stitches. i do remember the surgery took a lot out of her and i was quite stunned to see her after a night at the vet's. but she did recover 100%.
the literature at the time was mixed about surgery and radiation vs radiation alone. but new studies had revealed taht surgery was, in fact, effective. dr ayl was tillie's oncologist the first time she was diagnosed and he was adamant about the benefits of surgery before radiation.
I'm so sorry for what you all are going through. Hopefully you will know when the time is right to say goodbye. I do know what you are struggling with because Ginger was so very vital to the very end and though her spiral down was almost too swift for us to comprehend, even on her last day, with the vomiting, the lack of sleep, the panting, gagging and the bleeding, she still clearly loved the things that she loved and still loved life yet it had become untenable for her. Basic functions such as as breathing and eating were difficult at best, sleeping impossible. This is the incredible cruelty of this disease that robs our loved ones of their ability to function on basic levels while their will and spirit lives on.
We of course are still grieving over her loss as is her sister, littermate and best buddy Pepper. We have no solutions to this other than we pay extra attention to Pepper and she is getting lots of love and walks. We tried finding her a play buddy on Craigslist and a few dogs came over to play but she doesn't seem to know how to actually play with other dogs like she did with her sister though she seems to like them all. She pretty much mopes through the play session so we have given up. Pepper has completely boycotted their "dog deck" where the dog door leads to the fenced and paved side yard where they patrolled the neighborhood and did their business. We can't get her to go out there and stay for more than ten seconds. She pops right back in and she won't potty there now at all. She waits for walks to do that.
Other than time, TLC and attention I don't think there is a magic bullet to dog (or human) grief. Pepper isn't looking for Ginger as much but still seems somewhat down. I was hoping home euthanasia where Pepper saw Ginger lifeless would help and maybe it did a bit but not as much as I would have hoped. She, like us will need time to adjust to our losses. Fortunately we are retired and don't have to leave her alone for any length of time, but if we did, we'd be all over doggie day care to bridge the gap. We are considering it as a neutral territory for her to meet other dogs as she just seems depressed by the yard without Ginger. Maybe in another setting she'd be more open to making friends and playing which would be good for her spirit.
Best of luck to you all. My heart breaks for each and every one of you.
Thanks, tallmomma, for the information about Tillie's surgery. What I'm hearing from Tufts is that a study out of Wisconsin is showing that dogs who have definitive radiation followed by surgery when the tumor reappears (and before it is too big) are living a median of 4 years from the start of the radiation. They are repeating the surgery whenever necessary (and for those who have $2K to throw at this disease every few years). According to my vet, the surgeons are cutting a triangular-shaped piece from the top of the nose, keeping the dogs for a few days, and seeing a speedy recovery. There is the potential for chronic rhinitis (who of us isn't seeing this anyway??). Just thought I'd post this for others out there wondering what's up in the world of nasal cancer treatment...
We're waiting to schedule our CT scan to see if we qualify for the surgery or if we're better off with radiation. I have a feeling the tumor has spread to the other side of his nose, which would mean surgery is out. Maybe someone else can use the surgery option in the future, though.
My thoughts are with those of you traveling ahead of us on this journey.
tillie's surgery involved both sides of her nostrils. the cancer was primarily on the left side but as the surgeon saw evidence in the right side as well we opted to clear out both sides. three weeks AFTER surgery is when the definitive radiation began. to repeat, she had surgery first, then radiation not the other way around as you mentioned. we would not repeat the surgery as it was too hard on everyone although we did do palliative radiation 18 months after the end of the definitive radiation. and i must admit we were not happy that the cancer returned so soon. but, still, we are coming up on three years and, yes, nasal infections are chronic but we have had tillie on clavamox for the last few months and have not seen any infections. she is starting to bleed some now after big sneezes. the roller coaster continues.
Things were normal (as normal as they can be) last night and early this morning. We went about the normal routine - breakfast, getting ready for work, feeding the dogs, out for a pee...when it came time to go out and bring them back in I noticed the deck was full of blood droplets and found Probert under the deck with a pretty severe nosebleed.
I rushed the dogs into the house, ran my son to the babysitter's (he's three and I don't want him to be traumatized) and was back in about 10 minutes. I rushed in the door prepared to rush him over to the vet. By then the bleeding had stopped and he looked at me as if to say "What's the fuss about?".
It was scary and all the scenarios kept running through my head - the "What ifs?" and the "What do I do next?". I made sure he was ok and called the vet's office. They said since the bleeding had stopped they probably didn't need to see him, and his regular vet wasn't in today. I stopped in anyway, just to chat about "What next?" and the Vet Tech took notes and said she would have the vet call me when she's available.
In my heart of hearts I know what is next I just don't want to be the one who holds that power and makes that decision. He's starting to look tired most of the time, sneezes constantly, shyes away from being touched, has developped (in the last 2 weeks) a large bulge on the left side of his face, has had an infection with thick green mucous in his sinus for the last two weeks, we try to keep him calm so he doesn't have nosebleeds so that means not more trips to the park...I can see that his quality of life is fading but I feel an overwhelming sense of guilt in trying to decide to let go and have him put down.
My BF is as bad as I am for not wanting to have him put down. Probert lays around all day, snorking and sneezing with all kinds of stuff coming out of his nose and mouth and I just feel like I owe it to him to end his suffering and let him go now while he still has some good times and we have good memories. My BF tends to hang more hope on to the "Good times" than I do, for example, if he perks up for five minutes when he sees kids getting on the bus outside, he sees it as a sign that he's doing OK.
This morning I knelt down and whispered to Probert "You're not supposed to be like this" The look in his eyes just said "I am tired and I hurt, I'm sorry" and seeing the pain and weakness in his eyes made me so sad.
Like my friend said the other day: "You'll always feel you did it too soon anyway but you do not want to know you left it too long." and that's how I feel today, that maybe I've left it too long...
Don't now if this will help but with my previous dog when she reached 14 and had heart issues then developed Lymphoma on a visit to the vets we discussed what next and he said that while he did not feel it was time that day that he wanted me to know that from that day forward there would be no wrong time. He said she will let you know and the the decision is yours and no one elses. She did fine for a few weeks then when I came home from work one morning and went to feed her she could not eat. The look she gave me said it all. It was time. I called the vet set up the appointment for later that day slept then took her to the park where we sat in the shade and I was beginning to waffle and was thinking maybe I will put it off a day or two she took the decision out of my hands and went into congestive heart failure in the blink of an eye and we almost did not make it to the vets. It was like she knew and decided to do me a favor and take the decision out of my hands as she had no signs of CHF when we left the house. On the way to the vets just before she passed out she put her paw on my lap ( she always rode in the front seat!) as if to say " Its ok". As much as I missed that crazy dog the way it ended brought me much peace as I felt that it really was time and she was ok with that .
I still have not decided about Dash as now that I am giving him the tramadol only at bed time he seems much improved. He doesn't act like he is in pain during the day even without the tramadol. I know in my heart that I am only buying days at this point so there is a part of me that says go ahead and take him in . But when he is standing at the door as I take the others out asking to go along it tugs at my heart and I think ok give him a bit more time. I am not at all against hospice for animals and that is what I consider Dash's care now.
There is the part of me that still feels this may be a blow out from the neoplasene. The raw honey seems to be doing a good job and when I sliced my hand open yesterday I put raw honey on it instead of an antibiotic cream.
I do have a 12 day trip at the end of Oct. and know that I would never be able to find anyone to take care of Dash as it is alot of work getting his meds into him and cleaning the wound and applying the honey, keeping him inside during the day to keep him away from flies which means frequent potty breaks so I have that hanging over me too but that is over a month away and alot can happen in a month.
With Probert the fact this large bulge has gotten large in such a short time is not a good sign. Dash's bulge came on very slowly staying the same size for quite awhile then in the matter of days it doubled in size and burst open. which leaves me with the is it just the cancer or is it due to the neoplasene which could mean the cancer is dead? I do feel Dash has nerve damage from either the cancer,infection or IMRT as I would think this would be VERY painful but he is not showing me that it is. Becasue we did use the neoplasene I feel a part of me owes it to him to give him time as long as he seems to be doing OK. If I had not used it I don't feel I would be giving him the time as I would have no doubt it was the cancer eating its way out. Believe me I struggle with the decision every day.
Anyone reading this do not worry as Dash is not suffering, he goes about life like it is just a normal day for him and that having a crater in the middle of your face is no big deal. The drugs seem to cause him more problems then anything else as the narcotic really does him in and it is at 1/2 the dose! If I thought he was suffering I would have put him down, but to be honest I think I am suffering more then he is at this point.
Location: Montreal -> CT -> MA -> Montreal -> Ottawa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProbertsMama
Had a rough morning with Probert...
Things were normal (as normal as they can be) last night and early this morning. We went about the normal routine - breakfast, getting ready for work, feeding the dogs, out for a pee...when it came time to go out and bring them back in I noticed the deck was full of blood droplets and found Probert under the deck with a pretty severe nosebleed.
I rushed the dogs into the house, ran my son to the babysitter's (he's three and I don't want him to be traumatized) and was back in about 10 minutes. I rushed in the door prepared to rush him over to the vet. By then the bleeding had stopped and he looked at me as if to say "What's the fuss about?".
It was scary and all the scenarios kept running through my head - the "What ifs?" and the "What do I do next?". I made sure he was ok and called the vet's office. They said since the bleeding had stopped they probably didn't need to see him, and his regular vet wasn't in today. I stopped in anyway, just to chat about "What next?" and the Vet Tech took notes and said she would have the vet call me when she's available.
In my heart of hearts I know what is next I just don't want to be the one who holds that power and makes that decision. He's starting to look tired most of the time, sneezes constantly, shyes away from being touched, has developped (in the last 2 weeks) a large bulge on the left side of his face, has had an infection with thick green mucous in his sinus for the last two weeks, we try to keep him calm so he doesn't have nosebleeds so that means not more trips to the park...I can see that his quality of life is fading but I feel an overwhelming sense of guilt in trying to decide to let go and have him put down.
My BF is as bad as I am for not wanting to have him put down. Probert lays around all day, snorking and sneezing with all kinds of stuff coming out of his nose and mouth and I just feel like I owe it to him to end his suffering and let him go now while he still has some good times and we have good memories. My BF tends to hang more hope on to the "Good times" than I do, for example, if he perks up for five minutes when he sees kids getting on the bus outside, he sees it as a sign that he's doing OK.
This morning I knelt down and whispered to Probert "You're not supposed to be like this" The look in his eyes just said "I am tired and I hurt, I'm sorry" and seeing the pain and weakness in his eyes made me so sad.
Like my friend said the other day: "You'll always feel you did it too soon anyway but you do not want to know you left it too long." and that's how I feel today, that maybe I've left it too long...
Oh boy. I feel for you. That was so well-written that I felt like I was there -- looking at Probert and wanting him to get well.
I have no words of advice or anything. I just wanted to wish you all well, and I hope -- when the time does come -- that you can be at peace with your decision.
I read your post about Probert earlier but simply couldn't respond. Jan, you said just what I felt. Please know that we are thinking about you and Probert.
Happy Monday morning everyone, I hope the week-end was kind to everyone and their fur-babies...
Jan - How is Dash doing? I haven't seen any updates recently and hope all is well with you guys.
Probert had a seizure Friday night - he's been taking seizures, mostly in the fall and the spring - could be related to barometric pressure?, for the past 4 years. Even though I've dealt with him having numerous seizures in the past, this one was worrysome for me. It was probaby worse because in my mind I was trying to convince myself that its probably just like the ones he's had before but knowing that it could be a sign that the tumor is taking another toll on him.
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to EGINALSK,re tillie's surgery
