Property Tax in CT? (Hartford, Fairfield: house, incomes, to live)
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I really will not debate Waterbury or Hartford compared to MA cities. REALLY No debate to be had… but I’d rather follow NorCal’s advice and not compare. However, circa ACS 2019 1 year estimates Waterbury has a higher poverty rate than those cities outside of Holyoke which is booming from a business standpoint. Amherst? Really?…it’s a college town. I didn’t look it up.
PILOTs are dressing a pig.
You brought it up. The fact is the cities I mentioned are just as tired as any city in Connecticut and the poverty rates I posted prove it. That includes Amherst. Sure it has a couple colleges but apparently that does not make it prosperous. It came up on multiple data sources I reviewed.
As for Hartford, you do realize that it is the second largest employment center in New England. It has a LOT of well paying insurance jobs that makes it certainly more prosperous than Worcester, Springfield, Fall River, New Bedford or Lawrence. Jay
I just don’t wanna get into my huge pile of evidence in the ready why CT cities struggle more with blight/crime/poverty. It’s be overkill and it’s time consuming for me. I’ve got metrics video streetview, crime rates, etc etc
The cities in CT struggle because:
1) CT didn’t invest in urbanism/rail/cities to the extent MA or even RI did beginning in the 1980s. But that’s also true of Western MA- which is why Spfld and Holyoke are the most apt comparison to what you see In the CT River Valley at points south.
2) the cities have significantly smaller boundaries and thus poverty is more concentrated and there’s less suburban land to hold on to a middle class like a Brockton, Springfield, Worcester or Lowell. The boundaries are so small it easy to live in the next town over and commute into a shiny CBD and get home with no real benefit of living in the city proper at all.
3) property tax suppresses RE values and leads to more divestment and lack of maintain encouraging and renovations .94 in the case of many CT cities total bastardizations of the preexisting architecture. CT had many poorly/cheaply done modification to it urban housing stick that were done as cost saving/maintenance saving measures.
4) it had a longer industrial age and more modern factories as opposed to mills. This it followed rust belt pattern of rise and decline a little more closely than Eastern MA and RI. Those cities typically have more blight and have taken longer to recover than mil cities where mills can quickly become lofts. And are smaller to start.
5) a longer period of not having had county government and more town independence in general. It kills the poorer cities.
6) I 95, I84 and I91 blast through the CT cities and led to more divestment. MA cities are typically not torn up by a major interstate-as much.
You have to be kidding me? Have you even been to any of Massachusetts other cities? This comment certainly proves you haven’t or are completely blind when you do.
Are you really saying that Springfield, Worcester, New Bedford or Fall River are more prosperous than Stamford, Hartford or New Haven??? Heck, even Bridgeport overall is as good or better than some of them. Do I really have to remind you that Bridgeport-Stamford-Norwalk has the second highest concentration of Forbes 1000 corporations in the country and that it is among the most affluent parts of the country? You really need to take off your Rose Colored Glasses and look closer.
Also how can you say that Massachusetts cities haven’t been torn apart by highways??? Doesn’t I-91 and I-291 slice through Springfield? Doesn’t I-290 and I-190 divide Worcester??? Doesn’t I-195 go right through the center of Fall River and Route 24 cut off parts of the city??? Doesn’t I-195 and Route 140 go right through the middle of New Bedford? Before you make such a ridiculously erroneous comment like this, at least look at a map to see if you are even close to be correct. It’s embarrassing. Jay
I just don’t wanna get into my huge pile of evidence in the ready why CT cities struggle more with blight/crime/poverty. It’s be overkill and it’s time consuming for me. I’ve got metrics video streetview, crime rates, etc etc
The cities in CT struggle because:
1) CT didn’t invest in urbanism/rail/cities to the extent MA or even RI did beginning in the 1980s. But that’s also true of Western MA- which is why Spfld and Holyoke are the most apt comparison to what you see In the CT River Valley at points south.
2) the cities have significantly smaller boundaries and thus poverty is more concentrated and there’s less suburban land to hold on to a middle class like a Brockton, Springfield, Worcester or Lowell. The boundaries are so small it easy to live in the next town over and commute into a shiny CBD and get home with no real benefit of living in the city proper at all.
3) property tax suppresses RE values and leads to more divestment and lack of maintain encouraging and renovations .94 in the case of many CT cities total bastardizations of the preexisting architecture. CT had many poorly/cheaply done modification to it urban housing stick that were done as cost saving/maintenance saving measures.
4) it had a longer industrial age and more modern factories as opposed to mills. This it followed rust belt pattern of rise and decline a little more closely than Eastern MA and RI. Those cities typically have more blight and have taken longer to recover than mil cities where mills can quickly become lofts. And are smaller to start.
5) a longer period of not having had county government and more town independence in general. It kills the poorer cities.
6) I 95, I84 and I91 blast through the CT cities and led to more divestment. MA cities are typically not torn up by a major interstate-as much.
Did you forget about Stamford? the opposite of 1,2, and 3. Taxes are probably like MA
While Stamford and New Haven are enormous beacons of success, where CT really shines is in it's mid-sizers, one rung down from the majors, the 50-100K range. The Fab Five - Greenwich, Norwalk, Fairfield, Milford, and West Hartford. The taxes are more reasonable here compared to the majors. The rest of New England is hard pressed to compete with these gems. That is indisputable.
Did you forget about Stamford? the opposite of 1,2, and 3. Taxes are probably like MA
While Stamford and New Haven are enormous beacons of success, where CT really shines is in it's mid-sizers, one rung down from the majors, the 50-100K range. The Fab Five - Greenwich, Norwalk, Fairfield, Milford, and West Hartford. The taxes are more reasonable here compared to the majors. The rest of New England is hard pressed to compete with these gems. That is indisputable.
Meh- Brookline Cambridge Newton Quincy Framingham Somerville Waltham Salem Malden etc etc
But yea Stamford is nice no doubt better than most MA cities. I’m just talking strictly in how property tax hurts the worst of CT cities/ namely Waterbury Bridgeport and Hartford. On issue relating to crime blight and poverty. Some would include New Haven- I wouldn’t.
Danbury is another functional CT city. Whereas Some smaller cities in CT not so great, New London, Torrington, East Hartford, Meriden, New Britain. But it’s really only in the worst of CT where the situation I believe is exacerbated by high property taxes along with the other reasons listed. But it’s in 3 of the 5 majors, some would say 4 of the 5, with the big kahuna in Stamford basically being successful for the same reasons White Plains NY is. it’s so close to nyc.
Meh- Brookline Cambridge Newton Quincy Framingham Somerville Waltham Salem Malden etc etc
But yea Stamford is nice no doubt better than most MA cities. I’m just talking strictly in how property tax hurts the worst of CT cities/ namely Waterbury Bridgeport and Hartford. On issue relating to crime blight and poverty. Some would include New Haven- I wouldn’t.
Danbury is another functional CT city. Whereas Some smaller cities in CT not so great, New London, Torrington, East Hartford, Meriden, New Britain. But it’s really only in the worst of CT where the situation I believe is exacerbated by high property taxes along with the other reasons listed. But it’s in 3 of the 5 majors, some would say 4 of the 5, with the big kahuna in Stamford basically being successful for the same reasons White Plains NY is. it’s so close to nyc.
But the point is Stamford is a very prosperous city in Connecticut.
Also as I noted Massachusetts uses the exact same tax method as Connecticut and from what I see the taxes there aren’t much lower. Here are two very comparable homes in Hartford and Springfield. The taxes on the Hartford house are $3,380. Springfield house is $3,557. So much for Massachusetts houses having lower taxes.
You also seem to just be throwing out town names with no real knowledge of them. What’s wrong with East Hartford? It’s a working class town that is home to one of our state’s largest employers. It has many very nice well kept middle class neighborhoods. It has a few minor issues but nothing that bad really.
New Britain and Meriden are seeing a lot of new development. Torrington and New London aren’t that bad either. Again, do you even know them? It appears not. Jay
CT Effective State & Local Tax Rates Continue To Climb: Report
Ouch: A new report shows Connecticut residents have the second-highest overall effective state and local tax rate in the country. https://patch.com/connecticut/brookf...e-climb-report
I agree with this statement.
“ Joseph Martin, a professor of practice at the Truman School of Government & Public Affairs at the University of Missouri, said that how much the local tax rate matters may hinge on the age of the mover.
"Rates of taxation most often come into play with retirees, since they are usually on a fixed income," Martin said. For this reason, local governments often provide property tax relief for eligible elderly residents, sometimes to the tune of no tax at all.”
As I am still working, I’m more accepting of the high taxes, but once I’ll retire, I’ll probably contemplate moving as I won’t want my “fixed costs” to be so high. Maybe I’ll downsize and will keep a small place in CT for the summers, but even then I’ll have to calculate cost vs. benefit, to see if it would be worth it. Maybe I would just rent a room from a family member for the summer, to get away from the super hot summers in the south.
Last edited by EmiSky; 03-14-2022 at 07:42 AM..
Reason: Added a comment
Why is it I have no “real knowledge” of the towns again? I named a bunch of not great cities. All places I’ve been too. Remember… was in CT for about 5 years. Met hundreds of people from various towns. Been to the creeks in Glastonbury, to the old CoCo key in Waterbury, Naugatuck, to Jamaican cookouts in Bridgeport to downtown Middletown, bowling alleys in Berlin, Mansions in Rowayton. I know what I’m talking about. You act like CT is some big state that’s hard to travel or get the feel of when it’s very much the opposite. It’s a little sugar cube of a state. Inoffensive, square, sweet, small.
You’re telling me New Britain, East Hartford, and Torrington are that bad- I agree but they’re *kinda* bad/meh. (Places see development- so what?? What bad cities in NE see no development whatsoever??) Which is what I said initially, Jay. It’s not like I said Manchester or Bristol or West Haven( the next tier up) I also think it’s funny you’re gonna spout off about CT things and then be like “now that I’m done talking don’t say anything to me- let’s get back ‘on topic’ or I’ll close the thread” lmao. Alright.
As I am still working, I’m more accepting of the high taxes, but once I’ll retire, I’ll probably contemplate moving as I won’t want my “fixed costs” to be so high. Maybe I’ll downsize and will keep a small place in CT for the summers, but even then I’ll have to calculate cost vs. benefit, to see if it would be worth it. Maybe I would just rent a room from a family member for the summer, to get away from the super hot summers in the south.
Right, and the looooong winters. MA has those too.
For retirees on fixed incomes, unless you can afford to move or snowbird to Florida That Counts, does it make sense to pay higher Northeast property taxes.
The middle class can't snowbird, even to the Carolinas or TN
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Jay
