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I cannot get over how someone in Greenwich CT with the same exact car would pay almost 7x less than in Hartford CT. for property taxes That is embarassing.
A 2021 Honda CRV would pay ~$1,800-2,200 in Hartford. Per year. But just... $300-350 in Greenwich?
Thats so messed up.
And Greenwich residents are boiled over in anger they have to pay even that much. Most aren't driving CRVs there but that doesn't matter. Let the loser scum pay more.
Advocating for Nimby and championing CTs property tax rate now
"community pride"? no. it's pretty much selfishness, greed, snobbery, xenophobia, and at times-racism. And that's in MA NJ or CT doesn't matter.
It looks to me the tax rate is supressing real estate values, renovations, routine maintenance and also suppressing investment and new development in CTs worst areas. Or at least has for a VERY long time. There is not one city in MA that looks as divested and uncared for as Waterbury or Hartford or Newark or Paterson. Because its not a CT thing it looks to me a property tax thing. Maybe Willimantic, but not worse. You don't see how this contributes to CTs #1 inequity/Gini coefficient? Not the sole thing but a real contributor nonetheless. But there's a real indifference towards these inequalities and the cities in CT.- I distinctly remember this from my undergrad years there. Its kinda like "let them suffer on their own, not my problem". I guess in some respects its better than the gentrification ethos of Eastern MA...
Wait, so you do not think that people should have the right to speak out against what they don’t like? I believe that is a Right given to us under the US Constitution.
And what is wrong with community pride? Isn’t that a good thing? Doesn’t that create better communities? Just because people care enough about their community to fight to preserve it doesn’t mean they have “ selfishness, greed, snobbery, xenophobia, and at times-racism”. It means they care. Isn’t it apathy and lack of pride what destroys many cities?
I think you either view Massachusetts cities through “rose color glasses” or don’t really know them. I’ll admit that Waterbury has some areas that look “divested and uncared for” but you can see similar areas in Worcester, New Bedford, Fall River, Springfield, Lawrence, Holyoke, or a host of other communities around the Massachusetts.
I’d like to point out to you that according to City Data, 26.8% of Waterbury’s residents live below the US Poverty Rate. As the article linked above notes Lawrence, Springfield, Amherst and Holyoke have higher rates. And Chelsea, New Bedford and Fall River aren’t really that much less. So much for Massachusetts cities being better.
This forum has had long discussions about Income Inequity and the Gini Coefficient. As I’ve noted many times here, Connecticut is No. 1 in personal and per capita income in the country so of course it rates high for income inequality. That’s simply math and not surprising. Would it be better for our state to have lower incomes so these weren’t so bad? Of course not.
Finally I would like to call you out on saying that people here do not care about the inequality of income in our state. That couldn’t be further from the truth. Sure there are a few people with the “Let them suffer on their own, not my problem” attitude but there are people like that EVERYWHERE, even Massachusetts. If this was the attitude here, our state wouldn’t have its massive PILOT (Payment in Lieu of Taxes) program, it wouldn’t give poorer communities millions more in grants and aid than affluent ones and it wouldn’t pour hundreds of millions into providing improved educational opportunities to poorer communities. These prove you wrong. Jay
Yeah crazy.. and before someone says "Appraised!" ... i literally know someone who pays $1k+ a year for a Honda in Bridgeport lol.
My rents pay >$500 for their, borderline luxury car.
CT's tax streucture basically said, f* poor people and stay where you are.
You do realize that every town in this country bases it’s property taxes on the value of the property being taxed and that no state that I know of has a statewide uniform tax on property. Connecticut’s system is no different except that it applies to vehicles as well as real estate.
While I agree it seems unfair that taxes on a car in Greenwich is a third of that in say Hartford, I would point out to you that there is nothing prevent a town from setting its car tax rate lower than the state mandated maximum of 45 mills. This is a local decision made by locally elected officials. If taxpayers don’t like it, they can always oust them and elect ones that would set different rates. It’s NOT some big conspiracy to screw the poor.
I’d also like to point out that owning a car, particularly in a city like Hartford, is not a necessity. Thousands of people in our cities do not own a car and get along just fine. Buying a new car is not a right either. It’s an option and one that should be made considering the costs involved including taxes you need to pay. That’s no different than buying a vehicle knowing that you have to buy gas and oil for it.
Also note that Governor Lamont has proposed to lower the state set maximum mill rate on vehicle taxes to 29 mills and compensate towns for the revenue difference. This should significantly reduce the gap in taxes charged for the same vehicle. Jay
I’d also like to point out that owning a car, particularly in a city like Hartford, is not a necessity. Thousands of people in our cities do not own a car and get along just fine. Buying a new car is not a right either. It’s an option and one that should be made considering the costs involved including taxes you need to pay. That’s no different than buying a vehicle knowing that you have to buy gas and oil for it.
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This is absurd. Most of Hartford is a food desert. Have you ever ridden a CTtransit bus in your life?
Wait, so you do not think that people should have the right to speak out against what they don’t like? I believe that is a Right given to us under the US Constitution.
And what is wrong with community pride? Isn’t that a good thing? Doesn’t that create better communities? Just because people care enough about their community to fight to preserve it doesn’t mean they have “ selfishness, greed, snobbery, xenophobia, and at times-racism”. It means they care. Isn’t it apathy and lack of pride what destroys many cities?
I think you either view Massachusetts cities through “rose color glasses” or don’t really know them. I’ll admit that Waterbury has some areas that look “divested and uncared for” but you can see similar areas in Worcester, New Bedford, Fall River, Springfield, Lawrence, Holyoke, or a host of other communities around the Massachusetts.
I’d like to point out to you that according to City Data, 26.8% of Waterbury’s residents live below the US Poverty Rate. As the article linked above notes Lawrence, Springfield, Amherst and Holyoke have higher rates. And Chelsea, New Bedford and Fall River aren’t really that much less. So much for Massachusetts cities being better.
This forum has had long discussions about Income Inequity and the Gini Coefficient. As I’ve noted many times here, Connecticut is No. 1 in personal and per capita income in the country so of course it rates high for income inequality. That’s simply math and not surprising. Would it be better for our state to have lower incomes so these weren’t so bad? Of course not.
Finally I would like to call you out on saying that people here do not care about the inequality of income in our state. That couldn’t be further from the truth. Sure there are a few people with the “Let them suffer on their own, not my problem” attitude but there are people like that EVERYWHERE, even Massachusetts. If this was the attitude here, our state wouldn’t have its massive PILOT (Payment in Lieu of Taxes) program, it wouldn’t give poorer communities millions more in grants and aid than affluent ones and it wouldn’t pour hundreds of millions into providing improved educational opportunities to poorer communities. These prove you wrong. Jay
I really will not debate Waterbury or Hartford compared to MA cities. REALLY No debate to be had… but I’d rather follow NorCal’s advice and not compare. However, circa ACS 2019 1 year estimates Waterbury has a higher poverty rate than those cities outside of Holyoke which is booming from a business standpoint. Amherst? Really?…it’s a college town. I didn’t look it up.
This is absurd. Most of Hartford is a food desert. Have you ever ridden a CTtransit bus in your life?
I lived in Hartford during college without a car- pretty terrible. Not a choice anyone wants to make. Transit was bad (obviously).bin those days there was one supermarket in Hartford (beside CTown) and it was wayyy on the western/southwestern border of the city..way on the border. Walmart is where we did our grocery shopping. On the sight of a former housing process and right off the interstate 84- I don’t think it had a bus stop at all, in fact I’m confident it did not. Often times we walked all the way down Flatbush Ave from Zion street.
I really will not debate Waterbury or Hartford compared to MA cities. REALLY No debate to be had… but I’d rather follow NorCal’s advice and not compare.
I will. Springfield looks like a third world country. Some of the others are nothing to brag home about. Yes, infallible Boston is perfect, we know that. Hartford's dowtown area at least is clean and attractive. It would have a better dining nightlife without West Hartford's cannabalization.
I will. Springfield looks like a third world country. Some of the others are nothing to brag home about. Yes, infallible Boston is perfect, we know that. Hartford's dowtown area at least is clean and attractive. It would have a better dining nightlife without West Hartford's cannabalization.
Lol Springfield doesn’t look like a third world country. It’s not great at all but no no… Hartfords downtown is nice most of the. If three have better downtowns than anywhere but Boston Providence and Cambridge. but I’m really really not gonna do this which cities are worse game, it is too lopsided.
I just don’t wanna get into my huge pile of evidence in the ready why CT cities struggle more with blight/crime/poverty. It’s be overkill and it’s time consuming for me. I’ve got metrics video streetview, crime rates, etc etc
The cities in CT struggle because:
1) CT didn’t invest in urbanism/rail/cities to the extent MA or even RI did beginning in the 1980s. But that’s also true of Western MA- which is why Spfld and Holyoke are the most apt comparison to what you see In the CT River Valley at points south.
2) the cities have significantly smaller boundaries and thus poverty is more concentrated and there’s less suburban land to hold on to a middle class like a Brockton, Springfield, Worcester or Lowell. The boundaries are so small it easy to live in the next town over and commute into a shiny CBD and get home with no real benefit of living in the city proper at all.
3) property tax suppresses RE values and leads to more divestment and lack of maintain encouraging and renovations .94 in the case of many CT cities total bastardizations of the preexisting architecture. CT had many poorly/cheaply done modification to it urban housing stick that were done as cost saving/maintenance saving measures.
4) it had a longer industrial age and more modern factories as opposed to mills. This it followed rust belt pattern of rise and decline a little more closely than Eastern MA and RI. Those cities typically have more blight and have taken longer to recover than mil cities where mills can quickly become lofts. And are smaller to start.
5) a longer period of not having had county government and more town independence in general. It kills the poorer cities.
6) I 95, I84 and I91 blast through the CT cities and led to more divestment. MA cities are typically not torn up by a major interstate-as much.
This is absurd. Most of Hartford is a food desert. Have you ever ridden a CTtransit bus in your life?
Yes I have. Have you? Nothing wrong with them. They are just like buses in major cities all over this country. Not sure what you expect.
People forget that Hartford has a C Town, a Super Stop & Shop and a Walmart Super Center within its borders. Plus there are supermarkets just beyond its city lines in Wethersfield, West Hartford, Bloomfield and Windsor, all on major bus lines that are pretty easy to access.
And don’t forget that supermarkets these days deliver. There’s no excuse for crying “food desert” these days. Jay
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