[GoHuskies]

Originally Posted by mdovell

I wouldn't label all renters as that. Would you rather see a place not add apartments and have less investment? Sometimes you have to put the fear of development into people to encourage working.

I'd rather see successful condo or townhouse developments but given the cities financial issues and mill rate that wish is a pipe dream. There is zero point to owing a home downtown when lower mill rate towns with nicer neighbors, grocery stores, and better schools are within easy commuting distance.

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by GoHuskies

I'd rather see successful condo or townhouse developments but given the cities financial issues and mill rate that wish is a pipe dream. There is zero point to owing a home downtown when lower mill rate towns with nicer neighbors, grocery stores, and better schools are within easy commuting distance.

You have to do the math on property taxes. In the City of Hartford, you pay tax on 30% of the assessed value. Everywhere else is 70%, right? The nominal mill rate is $74.29. The effective mill rate on residential property is $22.29. That's not awful. If you don't have kids in the school system, the west end is viable. The houses are dirt cheap on a per-square-foot basis. You can get a pre-war 3,000 to 4,000 square foot home on a leafy street for $500K.

If Hartford had high ceiling/glass + balcony + secure garage mixed use space walkable to downtown, I think you'd get some interest. You can't do it without a car so it needs to have the secure garage. That's the problem with today's downtown Hartford housing stock.

[Mr_250]

I know they are building all these apartments downtown and great hope it helps.

My wife and I do little one nighters in Hartford just because it’s close. We stayed at the Goodwin on Saturday night. We went to Trumbull Kitchen at 7pm and got right in. We walked around a bit went down Pratt and around XL. It was dead on a Saturday night. With so many apartments and people it should be a bit more packed. Maybe once they really begin to fill up people will start to head out.

I hope they all work out.

[MikefromCT]

Originally Posted by GoHuskies

Call me a hater but I'm not impressed by new apartments being added to Hartford. Renters are just transient workers with no vested interest in improving the city and will jump ship like rats come any downturn. Can't really blame them when towns act like individual fiefdoms and depend so heavily on high property taxes.

This is an accurate summary of many renters, particularly millennials. I get it that the country as a whole has becoming increasingly mobile, but this age demographic is particularly transient and, therefore, really isn't interested in forming a vested interest in a community. It may be that there is a high occupancy rate among newly constructed apartments, but that's often because Mom and Dad are writing huge checks for them, and this is just a temporary layover on the way to something bigger, something better. Currently my condo complex is occupied by a number of such people. I would be more enthusiastic about them being here if they were more respectful of the property and the neighborhood. They're not interested in digging in with their heals here. How do we know this? Because at the end of every college semester, or right before every holiday break kicks in, you'll hear them state they're going home: "Like, we're like going home, like, for the summer." My response to that? I AM home. To me, where I live is my neighborhood and my community. To them, it's merely their playground, and they often have this mentality that it's the town's responsibility to keep them entertained. They seem to forget that living on your own may provide a certain amount of freedom, but there's also responsibilities, and this has proven to be a problem area for many of them.

[mdovell]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

If Hartford had high ceiling/glass + balcony + secure garage mixed use space walkable to downtown, I think you'd get some interest. You can't do it without a car so it needs to have the secure garage. That's the problem with today's downtown Hartford housing stock.

Oddly enough I live in that now in Springfield but that's besides the point. Cities should have enough to do a fair amount without having to have a car. Instacart does operate in Hartford. I think it's great.

"It may be that there is a high occupancy rate among newly constructed apartments, but that's often because Mom and Dad are writing huge checks for them, and this is just a temporary layover on the way to something bigger, something better. Currently my condo complex is occupied by a number of such people. I would be more enthusiastic about them being here if they were more respectful of the property and the neighborhood. They're not interested in digging in with their heals here. How do we know this? Because at the end of every college semester, or right before every holiday break kicks in, you'll hear them state they're going home: "Like, we're like going home, like, for the summer." My response to that? I AM home."

That issue is well beyond Hartford though. I see many small and mid level cities where the following happened. The main industry that they depended on declined and property values declined. Other people moved in (not that it is a bad thing). Those with higher incomes might still work there but don't live there. Maybe due to concerns on security or education for their kids etc. To accommodate those of a lesser means various non profits set up shop and this further erodes the tax base. Mayor Brolin makes a good point on this because the lack of taxable property automatically hurts Hartford.

Fast forward a generation and people get tired of commuting and living in an urban area is more desirable. Crime and drug use that used to be found mostly in urban areas makes its way into suburbs. All of a sudden the urban areas gentrify.

Academia creates a constant flow of people which can be very hard for businesses to try to block. I have a distant relative who manages dorms for some universities in Boston. Foreign students leave everything.

I can understand about digging in heels but we live in a much more mobile world. I a friend of a friend taught MBA classes online in Vermont while he was in Australia. There are people that perform customer service out of their own houses. Those that are publishers of books, podcasts, video producers etc. Not everything is physically "seen". The idea of place being a factor gradually has declined (see cluetrain manifesto)

"To me, where I live is my neighborhood and my community. To them, it's merely their playground, and they often have this mentality that it's the town's responsibility to keep them entertained. They seem to forget that living on your own may provide a certain amount of freedom, but there's also responsibilities, and this has proven to be a problem area for many of them"

I see that as a "beach" mentality sometimes.

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by MikefromCT

This is an accurate summary of many renters, particularly millennials. I get it that the country as a whole has becoming increasingly mobile, but this age demographic is particularly transient and, therefore, really isn't interested in forming a vested interest in a community. It may be that there is a high occupancy rate among newly constructed apartments, but that's often because Mom and Dad are writing huge checks for them, and this is just a temporary layover on the way to something bigger, something better. Currently my condo complex is occupied by a number of such people. I would be more enthusiastic about them being here if they were more respectful of the property and the neighborhood. They're not interested in digging in with their heals here. How do we know this? Because at the end of every college semester, or right before every holiday break kicks in, you'll hear them state they're going home: "Like, we're like going home, like, for the summer." My response to that? I AM home. To me, where I live is my neighborhood and my community. To them, it's merely their playground, and they often have this mentality that it's the town's responsibility to keep them entertained. They seem to forget that living on your own may provide a certain amount of freedom, but there's also responsibilities, and this has proven to be a problem area for many of them.

Yeah but.... College students are transient in any town with a college. I don't know many people who graduated from college and opted to stick around afterwards. They either head home or off to where they land their first career track job.

20-something renters have always followed the jobs. I certainly moved several times in the 1980's as I changed jobs. In hindsight, I should have kept renting. I got slaughtered in the 1989 S&L meltdown. I changed jobs to 50 miles away and was saddled with a mill stone for several years.

[mdovell]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

Yeah but.... College students are transient in any town with a college. I don't know many people who graduated from college and opted to stick around afterwards. They either head home or off to where they land their first career track job.

20-something renters have always followed the jobs. I certainly moved several times in the 1980's as I changed jobs. In hindsight, I should have kept renting. I got slaughtered in the 1989 S&L meltdown. I changed jobs to 50 miles away and was saddled with a mill stone for several years.

In a sense though it isn't a bad thing. When you think about it is easier to market to a constant age group rather than have to adjust the product lineup as they age. Of course this also means it gets old fast but still. College communities can be nice for certain things (art museums for starters) but not so much for bars and restaurants. The less exposure they've had in their lives generally means less experience. In other words if you want say authentic ethnic food this is the last place to expect it.

[beerbeer]

I read a demographics article that said that 40% of the households in downtown Hartford earn 100k and over. Over 70% earned 60k plus. Given a lot of these downtown apartments are studios or one bedrooms, a majority for the households are single people. That is a fairly affluent core of folks.

And sure an economic downturn would hurt. But that's true everywhere.

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by mdovell

In a sense though it isn't a bad thing. When you think about it is easier to market to a constant age group rather than have to adjust the product lineup as they age. Of course this also means it gets old fast but still. College communities can be nice for certain things (art museums for starters) but not so much for bars and restaurants. The less exposure they've had in their lives generally means less experience. In other words if you want say authentic ethnic food this is the last place to expect it.

That kind of depends on the college. Have you ever walked around MIT? 36% Caucasian. I doubt TGI Fridays or Olive Garden would do well there. Unselective private and state schools? The students are pretty white bread.

[BPt111]

West Hartford is booming .

“New restaurants are popping up in Elmwood Center, along New Park Avenue, at Blue Back Square, West Hartford Center and Bishops Corner. A new 114-room full-service hotel has just opened up and there are now more than 1,400 open-air restaurant seats throughout West Hartford.”

https://www.google.com/amp/www.coura...story,amp.html