[ayoskillz]

Originally Posted by MrGompers

Taxes DO NOT affect economic behavior as much as people think on the individual/family tax payer level.

It does not make economic sense for a person/family that makes 60k a year to move to Florida, North Carolina, Texas, or some other low tax area to save 2k a year in taxes. This is even more true for retired people who most likely have family and long time friends in CT.

I beg to differ. You save more than 2k a year but i came to sc from ct.. my taxes were about 4k a year on my house there which was just shy of 200k . My house in sc was 200k and taxes run me 1200 a year. Big difference in my opinion. House is nuch nicer and newer compared to my old one also.

If you make 60k in ct and can make 60k somewhere that is cheaper that makes plenty of sense to me. I actually only work 4 days a week now and make 10k more than i did in ct...

[RonaldusMagnus]

Originally Posted by SeaDoo342

Yup... there are people who claim taxes are the only reason (Ronald), and there are people who claim taxes are not the reason at all.... most people realize that each family who relocates have a different reason for doing so....

Clearly you haven't read my posts or are just mischaracterizing them. This is an ECONOMIC forum, so it would stand to reason we discuss the economic reasons people leave, not the weather. And the biggest of those economic reasons is taxation and cost of living in an era of job mobility. Fact is more and more people can work remotely.

Obviously people move due to weather at retirement age. This has always been the case. I could for instance send you the data on New Hampshire which has net IN MIGRATION which goes against the weather argument because New Hampshire weather is worse than CT. So what are the reasons there? And please, someone tell me why North and South Dakota have population increases if weather is the factor bc only a true crazy person would move to either of those places on weather, I know firsthand. In those states the obvious economic reasons were due mainly to the fracking boom....economic.

Finally, the study i'm basing all this off of CONTROLS for demographics. In other words, the fact that there are more baby boomers retiring is already factored in and accounted for and STILL it is net out migration. But as I stated at the start, CT is still marginally better than NY which is saving it from even more out migration.

[Henry10]

Originally Posted by MrGompers

What you don't see is if a person is poor or even of moderate means, lets say 18k-36k retirement income per year they are still going to be poor in Florida or North Carolina and to boot they won't have their family or friends around them. Assuming people in this income bracket will move to save a couple thousand on taxes is silly. The travel back and forth will eat that 2k in tax savings very quickly.

$ 2k savings might not be accurate. For example, if you're paying $ 6k in taxes in property taxes in CT, and pay $ 2k in TN -- that alone is $ 4k.

Add $ 1k for car-tax and delta for fuel.

Add maybe $ 1k for delta for home insurance, car insurance, utilities.

That's $ 6k. For someone on a fixed income grossing $30-40k, that's not insignificant.

Originally Posted by MrGompers

I think it only makes sense if your income is 100k or more per year to play the musical chairs game with states for tax purposes.

Actually as income goes up, let's say $ 90k, then the $ 6k is not so significant, and you're willing to pay it for lifestyle.

[RonaldusMagnus]

Originally Posted by MrGompers

Taxes DO NOT affect economic behavior as much as people think on the individual/family tax payer level.

It does not make economic sense for a person/family that makes 60k a year to move to Florida, North Carolina, Texas, or some other low tax area to save 2k a year in taxes. This is even more true for retired people who most likely have family and long time friends in CT.

Additionally, with retirement income some or all of it is tax free, and most towns/cities in CT also have free or very low cost activities for senior citizens.

I would love to see what services Florida or North Carolina offer their seniors and the cost of those services.

The only people who can benefit from playing musical chairs with the states for tax purposes are the wealthy and/or politically connected. They have been doing this for decades and have the lawyers and CPA's at their disposal. When was the last time you heard the Bush's or the Kennedy's were getting audited by the IRS ?

A family making $150k (very easily doable in todays age of dual working partners) would save $7,300 per year by moving from CT to FL. That is A LOT of incentive. You can do the math yourself if you don't believe me. Tax Calculator Results | Save Taxes By Moving

And it is a false statement that the only people that benefit are wealthy and politically connected. As I just showed dual earners above.

Finally those out-migration numbers fly in the face of "only the wealthy or connected" moving. Real life average Joes are moving. Like it or not, it is happening.

[SeaDoo342]

Originally Posted by RonaldusMagnus

Clearly you haven't read my posts or are just mischaracterizing them. This is an ECONOMIC forum, so it would stand to reason we discuss the economic reasons people leave, not the weather. And the biggest of those economic reasons is taxation and cost of living in an era of job mobility. Fact is more and more people can work remotely.

Yeah, so lets use that as justification to mislead and ignore other factors... right on!

[RonaldusMagnus]

Originally Posted by SeaDoo342

Yeah, so lets use that as justification to mislead and ignore other factors... right on!

Not at all. Did I say that? No. Matter of fact I've said repeatedly weather is a factor. Now lets focus on why ABOVE AND BEYOND that factor people continue moving away. Where is the "misleading"? Please point it out to me. Where is the "ignoring other factors"? Seems to me there is a common thread that is being ignored by you. Why does it make you uncomfortable? Is there some virtue in paying higher taxes?

The one fact that is never ever disputed and mostly goes ignored. The more you tax something, the less demand for it there is. It continues to go unchallenged and will continue to.

[BicoastalAnn]

The taxes wouldn't be so bad at all if the job outlook were greater. People are still coming in droves to the bay area, nyc area, etc. even though the taxes (and everything else) are sky high. That's what needs to improve if the state wants to attract people in their working years.

[HeadedWest]

Originally Posted by MrGompers

It does not make economic sense for a person/family that makes 60k a year to move to Florida, North Carolina, Texas, or some other low tax area to save 2k a year in taxes. This is even more true for retired people who most likely have family and long time friends in CT.

In the aggregate of Federal income tax, state income tax, property tax and car tax, I saved over $10K/year by leaving CT.

... with retirement income some or all of it is tax free,

Not really. According to: The Worst States for Taxes During Retirement | Investopedia

Kiplinger describes Connecticut as a "tax nightmare for many retirees." And for good reason. Real estate taxes in Connecticut are the tenth highest in the country, as reported by the Tax Foundation. While half of military retirement pay is excluded from taxes, you can forget about exemptions for other pensions or income in retirement.

[Sigequinox]

Originally Posted by Henry10

$ 2k savings might not be accurate. For example, if you're paying $ 6k in taxes in property taxes in CT, and pay $ 2k in TN -- that alone is $ 4k.

Add $ 1k for car-tax and delta for fuel.

Add maybe $ 1k for delta for home insurance, car insurance, utilities.

That's $ 6k. For someone on a fixed income grossing $30-40k, that's not insignificant.




Actually as income goes up, let's say $ 90k, then the $ 6k is not so significant, and you're willing to pay it for lifestyle.

Since your competing with TN, which I'm very familiar with, throw in no income tax. For my wife and I, that's another 8k...house differential (as of 2015) would be 4500, car another ~1k, less heat for winter = another 1k, cheaper electric rates ~3-400, Insurance is cheaper blah blah . All starts to add up to some real money. That's about 15k/year already. Get an expanding economy, better schools, more public services, few liberals and shorter winters to boot.

A lot can be had with 15k in additional disposable income. Colleague of mine just moved to Atlanta, got a sweet gig at a well respected and influential genetics lab making 15k more in salary(I know, impossible to make more in south ) moved into a house in one of Atlantis nicer suburbs (from Meriden in CT), where he got a house twice as nice for 50k less is enrolling his kids in the public schools which are rated substantially better than Meriden. He did very well. Getting laid off from his job in CT was the best thing that happened to him (though he might argues his children win that title )

[NCOriolesfan]

Well, according to this tax calculator I would pay less in taxes almost anywhere else in America. Makes me wonder why people keep moving here (North Carolina)?