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While I do feel that higher education is important, I disagree with how mainstream it has become to simply pick a major our of a list, take classes for four years, then have no prospective jobs (unless internships were completed and professional relationships were formed); basically my point is that you put 4 years and thousands of dollars into a degree that comes with no guarantee.
I think our country needs to revisit the notion of trade schools, vocational schools, and professional certificates and programs. Whoever instilled the idea that an education acquired outside of a 4-year institution was certainly successful in convincing the mass majority. However, I think it's time for people to take programs that teach on the job practical training, set up networking events with professionals in the field, and that really prepare them to begin life after completing the program with a rolodex of contacts and a mountain of opportunity.
For example, GCS, which is a group of schools in Florida that train students in practical careers like appraisal, mortgages, real estate, property inspection, insurance, and construction.
Would love to hear thoughts/opinions!
Jennifer
These are all available at most community colleges. In some cases, the students get an associate's degree as well as the certificate, job training, etc. This enables them to go on for a bachelor's degree later on, should they want to. College is not supposed to be simply vocational education. There is something to be said for getting an education to get an education.
Many people, including myself, have argued that the "college for all" movement has left a lot of students behind and has done society a big disservice. Now the Harvard Study brings some clout to the discussion. Hopefully we can move beyond the rhetoric and the current fixation on data and testing to develop and implement world-class educational programs for our students. Only then will the majority of our students be able to reach their potential and develop into the successful, productive, and contributing members of American society that we all want them to be.
I've probably posted on another thread (or two or three) about this, but here goes: college can be great if you know what you're going to get out of it ahead of time AND have spent time hashing out a plan to get where you want to go, either career-wise or financially.
And to the poster who said that college for everybody is "a mastermind of the student loan companies" (or something like that) I think you're right. Not everybody is cut out for college and a lot of people don't even want to go to college, which I witness on a daily basis for my fellow students who never go to class or show up high. Their parents probably push them into it (I mean everybody wants their kids to live up to their potential). And they see all this money available for their kids to go to college and push them into it when either they don't want to go or it's for something they don't want to do.
OP, I would not recommend anybody get into those fields you mentioned (or any field) if they don't have a true passion for it. If they have a passion for something the more likely they'll be to find out exactly what they need to do to make it work out. And I would advise someone to change careers if their career is not working out. But that's just me.
I'm glad that people can get money to go to college. But it has gotten out of control, I agree. But people are going to have to stop relying on employers to find them jobs and carve their own niche (as another poster said) and that may mean financially struggling for as long as that takes.
And I would advise someone to change careers if their career is not working out. But that's just me.
I'm glad that people can get money to go to college. But it has gotten out of control, I agree. But people are going to have to stop relying on employers to find them jobs and carve their own niche (as another poster said) and that may mean financially struggling for as long as that takes.
I think there's been a major conspiracy going on in k-12 to make students rely on employers. They basically systematically eliminate everything that can empower you. Why isn't entrepreneurship taught? Why is it so hard and against the grain to teach it, or at least shine some light on it? I don't expect everyone to run out and be Bill Gates or Sam Walton, but it couldn't hurt exposing kids to it.......When all this other stuff seems to come so easily....student loan forms, student loan applications, etc. Student loan forms flow like water in k-12.
But the tools to carve your own niche are half hearted or empty. I went to highschool in los angeles (in 1996). I took 4 years of foreign language, econ, social sciences, electives (woodshop! What good is that going to do you in a global economy?!? Talk about outdated). Funny, how 20-30 minutes from my highschool, there are....video game designers, film companies, public relations firms, etc. A myriad of industries you could learn about and get involved in. But we were never taught anything about them.
We went to the Museum of Tolerance (about the Holocaust) as a field trip. All this ideological nonsense gets shoved down your throat. I think thats what gives people the confidence and motivation to go to college. All this ideology, and all these things you "learn" and collect.
You feel smart! You feel well rounded. You think you're learning, collecting all of this information (at field trips and things). Thus, the "next step" for this learning and collection of information is college. They are very sneaky. This thing is not by accident.
Yes, the technology exists to educate everyone at a very advanced level.
Actually, you can go to college for free. There are schools that are free, do a search on the web you'll find them.
You don't need to worry about building a platform that utilized economy of scale. The cost of implementing a system is very small. You can add the additional resources needed for each new student when that student needs them and not before.
The traditional universities will suffer. They are still operating on the more buildings approach.
Yes exactly. I've looked at those schools, mainly MIT OCW. I say, "wow, this is GREAT, why doesn't everyone take these courses?" After thinking it over I've figured it out: people want degrees and certificates. Why do they want these degrees/certificates? Simple, they want to prove they know xyz skills for their employer/future employer.
The trick for any of these online universities is that they have to have a system of issuing certificates and degrees. Likewise, employers have to TRUST that these degree/certificates actually mean something. If the online universities can accomplish that then they are well on their way to providing low cost and universal higher education.
It also can't be dependant on government funds to finance operations. (in that case its not really free or low cost since someone else is picking up the bill).
I think there's been a major conspiracy going on in k-12 to make students rely on employers. They basically systematically eliminate everything that can empower you. Why isn't entrepreneurship taught? Why is it so hard and against the grain to teach it, or at least shine some light on it? I don't expect everyone to run out and be Bill Gates or Sam Walton, but it couldn't hurt exposing kids to it.......When all this other stuff seems to come so easily....student loan forms, student loan applications, etc. Student loan forms flow like water in k-12.
But the tools to carve your own niche are half hearted or empty. I went to highschool in los angeles (in 1996). I took 4 years of foreign language, econ, social sciences, electives (woodshop! What good is that going to do you in a global economy?!? Talk about outdated). Funny, how 20-30 minutes from my highschool, there are....video game designers, film companies, public relations firms, etc. A myriad of industries you could learn about and get involved in. But we were never taught anything about them.
We went to the Museum of Tolerance (about the Holocaust) as a field trip. All this ideological nonsense gets shoved down your throat. I think thats what gives people the confidence and motivation to go to college. All this ideology, and all these things you "learn" and collect.
You feel smart! You feel well rounded. You think you're learning, collecting all of this information (at field trips and things). Thus, the "next step" for this learning and collection of information is college. They are very sneaky. This thing is not by accident.
Read about the Prussian vs the Grecian system of schooling.
'School' is intended to 'produce good workers'
It's not natural to shift from one subject to another at the ringing of the bell, sit with people only of your own age, and in some cases sex etc.
They just want people who will 'go along' and be good little worker bees.
College may not be for everybody, but the problem is is that the job/ career field is becoming more and more demanding. Associate degrees are pretty much worthless, unless you learn a trade like plumbing, electrical, or HVAC. The value of bachelor degrees is begining to drop. You practically need at least a master's degree to get near the top of the ladder. So what are good opportunities are available for non-college grads?
There are plenty, I can tell you I will never ever perform repairs on my house, my car, or anykind of labor work.
I don't mind paying a living wage to anyone who will do those tasks for me.
The problem is american's are lazy!!! They all want to just sit in the air-condition office and get paid 100k for surfing the web, and yes for this type of job, you need masters or better.
Funny, how 20-30 minutes from my highschool, there are....video game designers, film companies, public relations firms, etc. A myriad of industries you could learn about and get involved in. But we were never taught anything about them.
Re: The myriad of industries: IMO schools can't keep up with the fast pace of the world. That's why they can't teach what they don't know. An organization called Teach For America - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia is trying to make changes on that front, including entrepreneurship, as I understand it. As for woodshop, if you're at the top of your field, you can find yourself sought-after worldwide and even have your own TV show. There's one 30-something guy on TV who has his own show - You can tell woodworking is in his genes and he has a passion for it. Some people are born with talent and when you combine that with luck, well, that's a rainbow and a pot of gold. Based on what I've read, one thing about Teach for America that rubs me the wrong way is: Why single out low-income communities to help? I don't wanna sound too critical, but I imagine other communities could use their help too.
Re: The myriad of industries: IMO schools can't keep up with the fast pace of the world. That's why they can't teach what they don't know. An organization called Teach For America - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia is trying to make changes on that front, including entrepreneurship, as I understand it. As for woodshop, if you're at the top of your field, you can find yourself sought-after worldwide and even have your own TV show. There's one 30-something guy on TV who has his own show - You can tell woodworking is in his genes and he has a passion for it. Some people are born with talent and when you combine that with luck, well, that's a rainbow and a pot of gold. Based on what I've read, one thing about Teach for America that rubs me the wrong way is: Why single out low-income communities to help? I don't wanna sound too critical, but I imagine other communities could use their help too.
True, but on the whole, teaching woodshop in the 21st century is backwards and a waste of time. Esp in this sort of economy. It's not going to help you compete with workers from China or India.
I don't think anything I learned in school was aimed at helping you compete against foreign workers. It was all a mish mash of stuff. 4 years of random foreign language? I took 2 years of french, 2 of spanish. Where's the logic?
Now, if they laid out a case, and said....look at the demographics of spanish speaking countries. Look at the income shifts. South America is going to be a major player in the 21st century. And they used historical references and economics to back it up. And they said..."South America tried dictatorships in the 20th century. They failed. They had hyperinflation and all this stuff. But they're making reforms. They've learned from their mistakes. And Argentina, Chile, are making improvements." And laid out a somewhat logical case for a foreign language. But randomly studying a foreign language (and forgetting it) is like randomly learning letters of the alphabet, without understanding the alphabet.
Why can't schools keep up with the fast pace of the world? Who are they serving? Students who could be learning about the world (fast paced or not)? Or the status quo?
-The lack of true debate in highschool leads to this college for all belief. Since you don't really know anything in highschool, you're getting 1/4 answers....you think logically, "well, I'll get more answers in college". Or, "I'll learn about what I didn't know in highschool".
With field trips, I think they're very sneaky and insidious. They don't take you to little plumbers school, or electricians school. Or how to be a garbage man. Or how to be a janitor. They throw these "carrots" out there. That get implanted inside you. Like the museum of tolerance.
A subtle seed is implanted. Esp, at the right age when you're impressionable, between 14-17. I have to help people. There's right vs wrong in the world. I have to "learn more". I have to make a difference in the world, etc. There's almost like a higher purpose implanted in kids. And one way you can alleviate that itch to help people....go to college! I can be the one person to help dozens or hundreds of people. Thus....the lawyer that starts out nobly, wanting to help people. Or the person studying psychology, wanting to find a breakthrough or understand people better.
But then fastfoward 5-8 years....half of them have dropped out. Half of them are making $14 an hour, with half the law bill $$$$. All this ideology is squashed before they can even do anything.
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