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Yet Columbus can't deal with 5 inches of snow within FIVE days? Again, pathetic. It reflects negatively on Columbus regardless of your equivocations (you said Greater Cleveland had similar snow removal problems, but haven't been able to back up that claim). Unfortunately, the storm and snow removal problems occurred just as Amazon was announcing its 20 finalists. It would be hard to imagine that Amazon wasn't monitoring reactions in the local media, and likely noticed the snow removal issue.
Yet Case Western, despite its much smaller enrollment than Ohio State, ranks only one notch below Ohio State as a national research university. And Cleveland has great chomps as a health industry tech center.
We don't know how Cleveland's bid compared with that of Columbus. It's a sad commentary in Ohio that Kasich and the Republicans have created the secretive Jobs Ohio to dole out incentives. It wouldn't surprise me if Cleveland was on the short end of the state's incentive offerings.
It would be interesting to document the difference in Greater Cleveland's tech industry versus Columbus. You haven't done so, merely stated your unsubstantiated opinions, often questionable, such as your diminishing Case Western's prominence as a research university.
Some corrections- Columbus' average snowfall is about 27-28" per year, not 22. In the last 5 years, it has been between the single digits and 60". Your information that it was 5 inches only is incorrect. They had about double that across the county in 2 separate events only 1 day apart. It wasn't a single 5" storm that the city failed to recover from for multiple days as you've been asserting. Neither article you provided on the matter said anything like that. Some people in some cul-de-sacs complained, which is standard procedure given that cities prioritize high-traffic streets and highways first, while low-traffic suburbia is always last.
Furthermore, your persistent assertion that this is some kind of black eye on Columbus is ridiculous. Seattle gets snow occasionally, and their snow removal must be at least an order of magnitude worse than any Midwestern or Northeastern city, yet they aren't planning to move anywhere.
What would enrollment numbers have to do with quality of research? And last time I checked, a "notch below" is still just a synonym for "worse".
As far as I can tell, JobsOhio had no direct ties to any specific city's bid. Each put one out on their own merits. None of the incentives Columbus was offering came from the state. However, now that Columbus is the only Ohio city, I have read that Kasich may offer additional state incentives, but what those might entail hasn't been revealed. Simply put, there was no conspiracy. 232 cities put in bids. A lot of them didn't make the final 20.
Amazon is only partially a "tech" company, especially now that it's increasingly branching out into things like retail. Retail is definitely a Columbus strong point. It's arguably the best distribution city in the state as well. Combined with the talent pool that OSU brings to the table, it just checked more boxes. That still doesn't mean it's going to win, although it would be good for all of Ohio if it did.
I do agree that Cleveland gets the State of Ohio shaft as much as possible; Gov. James Rhodes hated Cleveland and NEO. Being a Jackson County OH native steeped in Republican country, Rhodes relocated to Columbus after attending OSU and as Governor, focused on Columbus as much as possible. Of course anytime I mention that this anti-Cleveland sentiment outside of NEO, I'm ridiculed by Cincinnati and Columbus boosters, but it is true.
Despite this, Columbus is considered to be a high-growth city of the future. Attracting almost 10,000 new residents a year recently certainly confirms this.
As for affirming Columbus standing: people are moving there and it made Amazon top 20 list. Cleveland: people are moving away and it didn't make Amazon top 20 list. Is it a be-all-end-all not making the Amazon top 20? No, but it should remind Cleveland that, despite turning itself into a tourist/visitor attraction (rightfully so) it still has a long-road ahead to compete in today's national and global economy.
However, these capital cities definitely have an advantage for state business, thereby spurring at least some of the tech related economic growth. Raleigh, Columbus and Austin have large state universities in while Raleigh, part of the Research Triangle, has UNC close-by. Denver and are the largest cities in their respective states because they are the capital cities with no real intra-state competition while Nashville is emerging and taking over Memphis.
The surprise not making the list as well cities are Minneapolis, Charlotte, and Houston.
I read that Minneapolis barely tried to make a bid, and Charlotte's bid was god-awful. Watch the video of their bid if you get a chance. They go out of their way to insult Seattle- it's that terrible. Not sure why Houston was rejected.
Some corrections- Columbus' average snowfall is about 27-28" per year, not 22. In the last 5 years, it has been between the single digits and 60".
I don't think I posted anything about Columbus' average snowfall. I believe that was Kamms in post 2959. So you are not correcting anything that I posted. If I'm wrong, provide the post number.
Please provide the links to YOUR research.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81
Your information that it was 5 inches only is incorrect. They had about double that across the county in 2 separate events only 1 day apart. It wasn't a single 5" storm that the city failed to recover from for multiple days as you've been asserting.
I did try to find information on the storm and the amount of snowfall, but was unable to do so. My five inches and a description of the snow removal effort were provided initially by an exasperated resident of German Village. I was told the storm ended on Friday. Is that wrong?
Candidly, I was incredulous that any storm in Columbus would keep schools closed five days after the storm and that the city was still plowing streets, which is why I did a search and found the two articles that I provided. Those articles admittedly did not discuss the snowfall amounts, but they did confirm that many streets hadn't been plowed.
Here's what one article said:
<<The Department of Public Service said Snow Warriors plan to have the Priority 1 and Priority 2 routes in good condition Tuesday evening and will begin to transition to Priority 3 streets and neighborhoods into Wednesday.>>
So the city was plowing Priority 1 and Priority 2 streets on Tuesday, presumably the fourth day after the storm based on the information that I had been verbally provided.
Here's what the second article said:
<<Wednesday night, many people in Columbus still hadn’t seen a snow plow on their street. The city said as of three Wednesday afternoon 30% percent of Priority Three residential streets had been treated.
The Columbus City School District said the work Snow Warriors did on neighborhood streets Wednesday would help ensure that classes could resume Thursday, but no official decision had been made as of Wednesday night.>>
So schools were closed for at least three days because the city was unable to clear a snow storm that had ended on the previous Friday.
Please provide links supporting your claims that there were 10 inches of snowfall over 2 days. What days? How much snowfall on each day.
Your undocumented claims of 10 inches of snowfall in two separate 5-inch storms over two days are highly suspect based on research that I just did.
KOSU weather records report .21 inches of precipitation on Thursday, January 11, but the temperature was in the 50s all day, so that was rain. On Friday, January 12, there was reported .42 inches of precipitation. Multiplying that by 12, would indicate just over 5 inches of snow. There was no reported precipitation from Saturday, Jan. 12, through Sunday, Jan. 14. So where did your 10 inches of snow come from??? It sounds as if my Columbus friend, who regularly listens to weather reports, was accurate in what he told me. Don't you live in Mexico City???
Neither article you provided on the matter said anything like that. Some people in some cul-de-sacs complained, which is standard procedure given that cities prioritize high-traffic streets and highways first, while low-traffic suburbia is always last.
Furthermore, your persistent assertion that this is some kind of black eye on Columbus is ridiculous. Seattle gets snow occasionally, and their snow removal must be at least an order of magnitude worse than any Midwestern or Northeastern city, yet they aren't planning to move anywhere.
As noted, Priority 1 and Priority 2 streets were still being plowed on Tuesday,FOUR DAYS after the FRIDAY storm, based on KOSU data.
So your undocumented representations and excuses appear inaccurate. Whereas you provide no evidence for your excuses, the linked article above AND IN POST 2935 clearly stated that Priority 1 and 2 streets were still being cleared on Tuesday, four days after the storm, and that Priority 3 streets likely therefore had been neglected. I suspect your "cul-de-sac resident" excuse was pulled from your imagination in your effort to excuse the pitiful snow removal efforts in Columbus.
Residents in northeast Ohio know that there is little difference between five inches and ten inches of snow when it comes to snow removal, unless you're hand shoveling it. A street plow and my snow blower could care less. And northeast Ohio residents, unlike those in Columbus, simply don't tolerate lax snow removal efforts by their politicians. Not clearing snow rapidly is a cardinal political sin.
Five inches of snow is a laughably small amount. Almost any northeast Ohio community would deal with that amount in just several hours from the end of a storm. In my community, pick-up trucks are used to plow neighborhood streets.
I'm sorry, all of Columbus talk of "Snow Warriors" still attacking a 5-inch storm 4-5 days after the storm is truly laughable. If you're right, and Columbus gets 27 inches of snow a year, and up to 60 inches in a max year, there's no excuse for such a poor response to even a 10-inch storm.
Clearly, Columbus residents are very ignorant about snowfall removal and IMO have been conned by Columbus politicians and media. E.g., one difference may be that northeast Ohio communities pay overtime for overnight and weekend snow removal efforts. Has Columbus considered private contractors to enhance snow removal efforts?
I don't know if Amazon Seattle residents would think Columbus snow removal efforts are reasonable because I know nothing about Seattle and you've documented none of your representations (par for the course).
What I do know is that Greater Cleveland transplants living in Columbus believe that the snow removal situation in Columbus is laughably absurd.
What would enrollment numbers have to do with quality of research? And last time I checked, a "notch below" is still just a synonym for "worse"..
I provided an article ranking Ohio State 36th in the nation as a research university and Case Western 37th. Kamms had inferred that Cleveland had no research university. That was wrong.
You provided no substantiated information about quality of research. Most of the research rankings are based on quantity of research as expressed in dollars.
As for enrollment, given the much larger enrollment of Ohio State than at Case Western, my poorly made point was that research dollars per student at Case Western likely were much higher than at Ohio State. This isn't surprising given the prominence of the Case Institute of Technology as a predecessor institution.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81
As far as I can tell, JobsOhio had no direct ties to any specific city's bid. Each put one out on their own merits. None of the incentives Columbus was offering came from the state.
Once again, you likely are wrong, unless JobsOhio and the Kasich administration favored only Cleveland with assistance.
<<City and county officials said more than 20 organizations and 90 people worked on the proposal. Team NEO, The Greater Cleveland Partnership, JobsOhio and the state of Ohio were all listed as taking part in creating the bid.>>
We'll never know what the state offered because JobsOhio and Kasich administration offers are kept secret. This stinks, especially when several Ohio cities are vying for the same proposal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81
Amazon is only partially a "tech" company, especially now that it's increasingly branching out into things like retail. Retail is definitely a Columbus strong point. It's arguably the best distribution city in the state as well. Combined with the talent pool that OSU brings to the table, it just checked more boxes. That still doesn't mean it's going to win, although it would be good for all of Ohio if it did.
Amazon reportedly is targeting the medical industry for future growth. Cleveland offers immense advantages over Columbus in the medical industry.
Amazon only will move certain operations to the new HQ city. It's not certain that retail or distribution operations would relocate to Columbus. The decision whether or not to move will be left to division heads, so likely new divisions would be initiated in the target city.
As long as the bids are secret in Ohio, we'll never know what boxes were checked in Columbus relative to Cleveland. It certainly wasn't quality of life, mass transit, or the quality of the airport.
If the State of Ohio expends years of incentives to land Amazon in Columbus, starving other Ohio cities and regions of development funds, this will not be good for ALL of Ohio. This is just one reason why the secretive nature of JobsOhio conferred on the entity by Kasich and the Republican legislature is appalling.
I provided an article ranking Ohio State 36th in the nation as a research university and Case Western 37th. Kamms had inferred that Cleveland had no research university. That was wrong.
You provided no substantiated information about quality of research. Most of the research rankings are based on quantity of research as expressed in dollars.
As for enrollment, given the much larger enrollment of Ohio State than at Case Western, my poorly made point was that research dollars per student at Case Western likely were much higher than at Ohio State. This isn't surprising given the prominence of the Case Institute of Technology as a predecessor institution.
Once again, you likely are wrong, unless JobsOhio and the Kasich administration favored only Cleveland with assistance.
<<City and county officials said more than 20 organizations and 90 people worked on the proposal. Team NEO, The Greater Cleveland Partnership, JobsOhio and the state of Ohio were all listed as taking part in creating the bid.>>
We'll never know what the state offered because JobsOhio and Kasich administration offers are kept secret. This stinks, especially when several Ohio cities are vying for the same proposal.
Amazon reportedly is targeting the medical industry for future growth. Cleveland offers immense advantages over Columbus in the medical industry.
Amazon only will move certain operations to the new HQ city. It's not certain that retail or distribution operations would relocate to Columbus. The decision whether or not to move will be left to division heads, so likely new divisions would be initiated in the target city.
As long as the bids are secret in Ohio, we'll never know what boxes were checked in Columbus relative to Cleveland. It certainly wasn't quality of life, mass transit, or the quality of the airport.
If the State of Ohio expends years of incentives to land Amazon in Columbus, starving other Ohio cities and regions of development funds, this will not be good for ALL of Ohio. This is just one reason why the secretive nature of JobsOhio conferred on the entity by Kasich and the Republican legislature is appalling.
No, I didn't infer that Cleveland lack a research university; only a large (OSU, Texas, or UNC-sized) research university.
So, why do you think Cleveland didn't make Amazon's 20 list?
So, why do you think Cleveland didn't make Amazon's 20 list?
It's almost impossible to say without seeing Cleveland's proposal, which hasn't been released. Reportedly, Columbus offered a site on Ohio State's campus. I don't know what Cleveland offered for a physical location.
I do worry, as should all Clevelanders, that JobsOhio and the state of Ohio offered a much more favorable incentive package for Columbus than for Cleveland. It's disgusting and unacceptable that we'll never know if that was true.
It's almost impossible to say without seeing Cleveland's proposal, which hasn't been released. Reportedly, Columbus offered a site on Ohio State's campus. I don't know what Cleveland offered for a physical location.
I do worry, as should all Clevelanders, that JobsOhio and the state of Ohio offered a much more favorable incentive package for Columbus than for Cleveland. It's disgusting and unacceptable that we'll never know if that was true.
I wouldn't dismiss your points related to the State of Ohio and JobsOhio. Where else would the State of Ohio want Amazon? Columbus, Ohio's current golden child city.
NEO and specifically Cleveland: not liked at all by the rest of Ohio.
I haven't read this thread in extreme detail, but it seems like no one has really mentioned the fact that Cleveland and Cincinnati just have city governments that are embarrassingly amateur in how they go about doing business.
The Jackson administration is at best reactionary and at worst completely out of touch, RTA is in a death spiral because we can't prioritize, local politicians are entrenched and half of city council is dead weight. Also, Columbus is very likely not going to win, so I think it's misguided to really look at the city as an overwhelmingly better candidate. In all likelihood it's just slightly better than any of the other Ohio options because it managed to check some arbitrary boxes.
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