Another string of positive media stories on Cleveland (Lorain, Lakewood: rental, to buy)

[october2007]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

I also don't relate to this thing about public transit being "cool" in some cities. In my boston experience, the mbta is to he used begrudgingly. It is literally one of the most common small talk conversations, how bad the mbta is. So I guess I don't totally buy the whole thing about classy people looking forward to their commute and going out to swanky downtown bars in Chicago or Seattle or wherever. Even when I lived in moscow with their frequent and beautiful subway, the average person doesn't actually like it for every day dependency.

I'm just saying that if you want to find negatives you'll find them in Cleveland and it's easy to rag on it by comparing it to a place that more people like. But this ignores a lot of the advantages that cle has.

I guess I've enjoyed not having to own a car and have mostly been able to rely on public transportation (was difficult in Denver back in the 90s though). The MBTA has its problems but you do get frequent service and I just find it disappointing that CLE has such an extensive system here but service is infrequent which makes it more difficult to use. Even though there may be advantages to living here, the transportation system has deficits IMO which I've mentioned. I could easily mention negatives about other places I've lived too. I may sound overly negative but I guess I just want places to improve and live up to their potential. Or maybe I'm just never satisfied.

[october2007]

Originally Posted by andrew61

I honestly didn't feel that as much in Chicago as I do here. I found that in Chicago, using public transportation for getting around (other than to and from work downtown) carries much less of a stigma than it does in Cleveland. I knew plenty of people there who could well afford a car but who chose not to have one. And nobody thinks anything of it... it's just accepted.

But in Cleveland, sometimes when you meet new people and they find out you don't drive, it can mean they just decide not to bother with you. At least that's been my experience and that of other nondrivers I know.

I think cities with subway systems carry less stigma. Did you like Chicago?

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by october2007

I guess I've enjoyed not having to own a car and have mostly been able to rely on public transportation (was difficult in Denver back in the 90s though). The MBTA has its problems but you do get frequent service and I just find it disappointing that CLE has such an extensive system here but service is infrequent which makes it more difficult to use. Even though there may be advantages to living here, the transportation system has deficits IMO which I've mentioned. I could easily mention negatives about other places I've lived too. I may sound overly negative but I guess I just want places to improve and live up to their potential. Or maybe I'm just never satisfied.

I'm just saying that literally nobody I know actually "likes" the mbta. I don't know why Cleveland gets singled out for transit. And for other things too. Just trying to balance out this excessive negativity.

Just to stick with boston, the real boston of today, not the sentimental frozen in time boston you might have known: people on the same block for years have never met each other. It's not uncommon for people to spend at least 50% of their income on rent. You will make friends who will leave after a few years, then you have to make friends again. There are no happy hours. You will never be able to afford the nice areas. Ever. The t is always crowded and slow. You are frequently better off walking time wise for anything under 3 miles. Tickets for any kind of event are frequently 2x more expensive than seems reasonable, if they're available at all. Most neighborhoods that used to have character now have anonymous luxury apartment buildings.

I'm sorry but if you're ignoring this to focus on some intangible thing about not enough pedestrians in non downtown areas of cleveland, I just think that's missing the biggest points of what makes life in any city worthwhile. So I don't get why we're always talking negatives here.

[october2007]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

I'm just saying that literally nobody I know actually "likes" the mbta. I don't know why Cleveland gets singled out for transit. And for other things too. Just trying to balance out this excessive negativity.

Just to stick with boston, the real boston of today, not the sentimental frozen in time boston you might have known: people on the same block for years have never met each other. It's not uncommon for people to spend at least 50% of their income on rent. You will make friends who will leave after a few years, then you have to make friends again. There are no happy hours. You will never be able to afford the nice areas. Ever. The t is always crowded and slow. You are frequently better off walking time wise for anything under 3 miles. Tickets for any kind of event are frequently 2x more expensive than seems reasonable, if they're available at all. Most neighborhoods that used to have character now have anonymous luxury apartment buildings.

I'm sorry but if you're ignoring this to focus on some intangible thing about not enough pedestrians in non downtown areas of cleveland, I just think that's missing the biggest points of what makes life in any city worthwhile. So I don't get why we're always talking negatives here.

Well, the Boston I knew when I lived there in the 1980s wasn't all wonderful...I moved to Seattle in part because it was unaffordable living there. I'm sure I hated the T sometimes too but I did enjoy the museums, the culture, the movie theaters (there were lots more then), walking around downtown/Back Bay. I guess you prefer CLE because it's friendlier, more affordable, and has retained its character - valid points. I still think Boston's a great city but I can't afford to live there and would actually prefer to live in the suburbs and visit occasionally. Maybe I'll find more of what makes CLE livable or maybe it's the wrong fit for me. Don't know yet. I think maybe you take it personally when something negative is pointed out about your city. I'm partly trying to understand why certain things are the way they are here if/when I've seen them done differently or better somewhere else. But it's only my take and I could be wrong.

BUT MAYBE WE SHOULD TAKE THIS BACK TO ORIGINAL PURPOSE OF POSITIVE MEDIA STORIES.

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by october2007

When I was planning to move here I spoke with someone that lived here and she said or implied that only people who couldn't afford a car (i.e., not the best people) used public transportation. I kind of scoffed at the idea but I think it's partly true. I think Chicago and Boston (and NYC) have more professionals who commute on the subway and maybe some buses and there's a different feel to it.

Those three cities have much higher densities than Cleveland, more traffic congestion, and much higher parking charges. So mass transit has more frequent schedules and generally better economics. The flip side is that housing costs are much lower in Cleveland.

Compared to similarly sized cities, Cleveland has a robust mass transit system, albeit a legacy rail system.

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

There are no happy hours.

NONE??? If so, wow! That's a new advantage for Cleveland.

Are Happy Hours sparse in other cities as well these days?

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by october2007

Well, the Boston I knew when I lived there in the 1980s wasn't all wonderful...I moved to Seattle in part because it was unaffordable living there. I'm sure I hated the T sometimes too but I did enjoy the museums, the culture, the movie theaters (there were lots more then), walking around downtown/Back Bay. I guess you prefer CLE because it's friendlier, more affordable, and has retained its character - valid points. I still think Boston's a great city but I can't afford to live there and would actually prefer to live in the suburbs and visit occasionally. Maybe I'll find more of what makes CLE livable or maybe it's the wrong fit for me. Don't know yet. I think maybe you take it personally when something negative is pointed out about your city. I'm partly trying to understand why certain things are the way they are here if/when I've seen them done differently or better somewhere else. But it's only my take and I could be wrong.

BUT MAYBE WE SHOULD TAKE THIS BACK TO ORIGINAL PURPOSE OF POSITIVE MEDIA STORIES.

Not taking it personally, just responding to what appears to me as unwarranted negativity about everything despite minimal knowledge of the subject. Look up some of my posts about cleveland. I have no problem criticizing. But from your posts it just seems you repeat something like "I'm new, (but this this this and that are bad, that's underwhelming)" then end with "but maybe I dont." We'll yeah, you dont really know. Then people like me say "check this out and do this" but it doesn't seem like you have. And I do question how open you are since nothing at all seems to impress you- not a fan of Ohio city, lakewood,downtown, etc. People I've taken to Cleveland typically love those areas. Not cle natives either, coasties. You don't have to like the same things other people do but I do wonder how fair a chance you're giving things and I don't think it's good/healthy to be pessimistic so early on living there. If you look for things to dislike, you'll definitely find them. The brain is very good at that.

I've ways thought you don't "get" a place for a year and even then, two years is better. I'm just pointing out you're at not even 2 months.

Don't interpret my responses as personal against you. I hope you start to enjoy cleveland. I'm just responding to general ideas and sentiments I've seen from many people, not just you.

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by october2007

Maybe I'll find more of what makes CLE livable or maybe it's the wrong fit for me. Don't know yet.

Once spring arrives (after this week's storm; Boston will have it worse), and Cleveland enters its brilliant season, your perspective about Cleveland may improve.

However, part of what makes Greater Cleveland enjoyable is its parks and natural assets, relatively affordable pro sports, and excellent high culture, and it doesn't appear that you partake of those amenities very much.

[bjimmy24]

Hot new dining city: Cleveland?! - LA Times

I would learn that Cleveland is not the culinary backwater that arrogant Chicagoans may assume, but an affordable town full of joints we'd be lucky to have.

'

I think this is an old article, things are only better now. It's a mistake to think, like many non Clevelanders do, that you have to go to a coast to get top quality food.

[Minervah]

After all is said and done for me it's the people and not the appearance of a city that makes it livable. People here are just nicer and more easy going than those in my former city. Thanks what matters.