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According to the article, the reason Cleveland scored so low was because of the job market here. It goes with what I've been saying about the region being economically depressed. All those cultural institutions and other attractions Cleveland boasts are all well and good, but are of little use in attracting new residents if one can't find a suitable job here....
I guess all those cultural institutions Cleveland has over many other cities aren't helping.
I would like to see a table that lists all of the grades and the totals. This ranking has Buffalo at 33 and Toledo and Dayton ranked higher than Cleveland, not to mention many other cities which certainly wouldn't be places that I personally would enjoy calling home, especially vis-a-vis Cleveland.
Please convince us why Buffalo rightfully belongs in the top 33 of metros in the U.S. There's some flaw in this ranking system that isn't immediately transparent, and it goes beyond the ridiculously weighted desirability ranking that I mentioned earlier.
I do believe that the Cleveland Metro has been brutalized by federal tax policies and now by Ohio's Republicans (think about the ongoing brutalization of the region's manufacturers by the Republican Toll Road). As one of the nation's great manufacturing centers in the past, having this aspect of the metro's economy shredded is a big negative.
Yet Cleveland's legacy assets, and those of many other great U.S. metros, IMO are marginalized by this rating system. Imagine a weighting system that placed a heavy emphasis on the quality of cultural institutions and professional sports franchises.
Attracting new residents IMO is nothing that makes an area a great place to live, unless ones likes congestion and urban sprawl. The aspects of my life that I enjoy in Cleveland simply aren't available in most U.S. metros, and certainly not in combination with Cleveland's low cost of living. Fact.
The job market in the CSA is not that bad. A lot of figures on Cleveland (and Detroit) are somewhat unfair because of the profound white flight and middle-class flight from the city proper. Here's one list that puts the Cleveland CSA in a more reasonable light:
1. Palo Alto, CA
2. Redmond, WA
3. Atlanta, GA
4. Chicago, IL
5. Phoenix, AZ
6. New York, NY
7. Charlotte, NC
8. Dallas, TX
9. Houston, TX
10. Washington, DC
11. San Jose, CA
12. Austin, TX
13. San Francisco, CA
14. Cincinnati, OH
15. Miami, FL
16. Tampa, FL
17. Raliegh, NC
18. Boston, MA
19. Orlando, FL
20. San Diego, CA
21. Los Angeles, CA
22. San Antonio, TX
23. Columbus, OH
24. Herndon, VA
25. Irvine, CA
26. Cleveland, OH
27. Sacramento, CA
28. St. Louis, MO
29. Las Vega, NV
30. Minneapolis, MN
31. Philadelphia, PA
32. Pittsburgh, PA
33. Indianapolis, IN
34. Jacksonville, FL
35. Richmond, VA
36. Seattle, WA
37. Arlington, VA
38. Detroit, MI
39. Louisville, KY
40. Oklahoma City, OK
41. Denver, CO
42. Overland Park, KS
43. Kansas City, MO
44. Milwaukee, WI
45. Plano, TX
46. Dayton, OH
47. Portland, OR
48. Salt Lake City, UT
49. Alexandria, VA
50. Nashville, TN
According to the article, the reason Cleveland scored so low was because of the job market here. It goes with what I've been saying about the region being economically depressed. All those cultural institutions and other attractions Cleveland boasts are all well and good, but are of little use in attracting new residents if one can't find a suitable job here.
I was perusing the 2017 World Almanac the other day, in particular the U.S. Population section. According to the 2015 Census estimates, if they are to be believed, Columbus has now topped 800,000 population in the city proper while Cleveland has slipped to 388,000. Cleveland, which was the fifth-largest U.S. city when my parents were kids, has now fallen out of the top 50, sadly. Worse still, the metro area as a whole has fallen out of the top 30.
I guess all those cultural institutions Cleveland has over many other cities aren't helping.
I'm starting to understand more about what I sensed after moving here 6 weeks ago. Something felt off to me...it feels a bit depressed (with the exception of University Circle area which has a happening vibe). I couldn't understand why more people didn't live here or move here (low cost of living, good real estate prices, great cultural institutions, parks galore). But if there aren't enough jobs then that's a problem. I feel like Cleveland should and could be better (and maybe it's on the rise but will take a while). I saw Seattle go from a sort of hidden gem to an overbuilt and overcrowded mess where the city lost what made it distinctive and livable so I'm not in favor of huge growth that's not managed well but it does seem there's potential here for improvement. Is the city doing anything to attract companies to the area? To promote the things that might make people want to live here (cost of living, green spaces, cultural activities)?
I'm starting to understand more about what I sensed after moving here 6 weeks ago. Something felt off to me...it feels a bit depressed (with the exception of University Circle area which has a happening vibe). I couldn't understand why more people didn't live here or move here (low cost of living, good real estate prices, great cultural institutions, parks galore). But if there aren't enough jobs then that's a problem. I feel like Cleveland should and could be better (and maybe it's on the rise but will take a while). I saw Seattle go from a sort of hidden gem to an overbuilt and overcrowded mess where the city lost what made it distinctive and livable so I'm not in favor of huge growth that's not managed well but it does seem there's potential here for improvement. Is the city doing anything to attract companies to the area? To promote the things that might make people want to live here (cost of living, green spaces, cultural activities)?
Ohio city, little italy, Gordon square, Tremont, north collinwood, larchmere, coventry, downtown, lakewood overall, cedar lee are depressed too? I don't know, even when I go to neighborhoods that aren't that "sexy" I still feel a strong community and energy. Felt this in asiatown, St clair, even Slavic village to a degree. People trying to improve their neighborhoods is really admirable.
Trust me, you don't want the city to promote things. Let the people and entrepreneurs market themselves and hire new people. The city should just cut taxes.
I think it's not as bad as you think. University circle is definitely not the only good area.... not even close. I think the worst parts of Cleveland are worse than most other bad neighborhoods in other cities. But honestly, if you ask me where I'd rather hang out tonight, id go to my favorite Cleveland haunts over anywhere in new england.
Ohio city, little italy, Gordon square, Tremont, north collinwood, larchmere, coventry, downtown, lakewood overall, cedar lee are depressed too? I don't know, even when I go to neighborhoods that aren't that "sexy" I still feel a strong community and energy. Felt this in asiatown, St clair, even Slavic village to a degree. People trying to improve their neighborhoods is really admirable.
Trust me, you don't want the city to promote things. Let the people and entrepreneurs market themselves and hire new people. The city should just cut taxes.
I think it's not as bad as you think. University circle is definitely not the only good area.... not even close. I think the worst parts of Cleveland are worse than most other bad neighborhoods in other cities. But honestly, if you ask me where I'd rather hang out tonight, id go to my favorite Cleveland haunts over anywhere in new england.
Well, I guess I've talked about this before and it might be that it's very different from the PNW where I've been for almost 30 years (Portland and Seattle) - the style is very different there. It's newer and there are lots of amenities everywhere and lots of people (too many). I think since Cleveland is home to you, you have good feelings about it and appreciate it more than I can at this point. You're probably right about the neighborhoods you mentioned but to me, but some do appear a bit depressed or dull to me. Or there are small pockets where things are nice but surrounded by not so nice areas and I can't tell if things are improving or going downhill. We should trade places as I am homesick for New England.
Location: Cleveland, OH USA / formerly Chicago for 20 years
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjimmy24
Ohio city, little italy, Gordon square, Tremont, north collinwood, larchmere, coventry, downtown, lakewood overall, cedar lee are depressed too? I don't know, even when I go to neighborhoods that aren't that "sexy" I still feel a strong community and energy. Felt this in asiatown, St clair, even Slavic village to a degree. People trying to improve their neighborhoods is really admirable.
Lakewood is OK, and indeed has many things going for it, the downtown area in particular is looking really spiffy these days, but yes, compared to where I lived on Chicago's North Side, it "feels" somewhat depressed. You walk down the street and look at who's around, and sometimes it feels like a sort of "dumping ground" for the poor, disabled, flakes, loonies, and other assorted misfits. And people here don't take pride in their appearance... too many women, for example, too fat and wearing cheap, tacky clothes and sporting bad haircuts. I could go on and on... I find such things depressing. Sometimes Lakewood feels like just another hick town.
(I was out at Crocker Park in Westlake last weekend, and I couldn't believe the difference. People there looked much spiffier and more together. But then, that's pretty far out in suburbia.)
My old Lakewood stomping grounds, the Gold Coast (along with 117/Clifton), appears to be sadly in decline these days. Lots of ragtaggy looking people around... I find myself wondering if there's been a sharp uptick in Section 8 living there.
Ohio City has a lot of energy along West 25th Street and some nearby areas, but then look at the people you see outdoors day to day. Too many ghetto trash. Last time I was down there, while cutting across Market Square (or whatever that park at 25/Lorain is called), some ghetto woman started harassing a yuppie-looking man about his dog that he was walking... and then a block over on West 26th, some other ghetto woman nearly ran me over with her bicycle and then started cussing me out. I was thinking about maybe moving back there at some point (I grew up in the area long before it was hip and trendy), but experiences like that make me think otherwise. Sometimes down there I feel like I'm in some alien third-world country. Chicago's North Side was oh, so different. Sure, there were people like that around on the streets, but they were vastly outnumbered.
I'm impressed with Gordon Square, but the nice area along Detroit is just so short -- a few blocks and you're out of it already... and there's no place to buy groceries except that Save-A-Lot at 58/Detroit, and that store is just so ghetto... again, I could go on and on.
Coventry is good, but again, a very small area, three blocks... Larchmere is OK... I haven't been to Cedar Lee or North Collinwood since I've been back, so I can't comment... Asiatown has some good things happening here and there, but it's not nearly cohesive enough... too many parts of it still look rather desolate like nothing's there... the area still looks like it could use a good face lifting.
University Circle is just about the only place in Cleveland where I feel like I'm in a real, vibrant big city. I'm liking all the new construction over there.
I don't know guys, I currently live in a "nice" city that's "vibrant" and a lot of it I actually find soul crushing in a different way. I guess the grass is always greener eh?
I don't know guys, I currently live in a "nice" city that's "vibrant" and a lot of it I actually find soul crushing in a different way. I guess the grass is always greener eh?
You're probably homesick....Boston is most likely more of a rat race than here. I do feel like Cleveland is more "real" in some ways (compared to Seattle) and maybe that's what you prefer. Boston can be kind of pretentious and competitive and hard to deal with if you can't tune it out.
Andrew61 described what I've been seeing/feeling far better than I've been able to. I too liked Crocker Park and also Legacy Village area and wondered why I don't see more of that type of environment closer in...guess it's because most of the professionals have moved to suburbia.
Lakewood is OK, and indeed has many things going for it, the downtown area in particular is looking really spiffy these days, but yes, compared to where I lived on Chicago's North Side, it "feels" somewhat depressed. You walk down the street and look at who's around, and sometimes it feels like a sort of "dumping ground" for the poor, disabled, flakes, loonies, and other assorted misfits. And people here don't take pride in their appearance... too many women, for example, too fat and wearing cheap, tacky clothes and sporting bad haircuts. I could go on and on... I find such things depressing. Sometimes Lakewood feels like just another hick town.
(I was out at Crocker Park in Westlake last weekend, and I couldn't believe the difference. People there looked much spiffier and more together. But then, that's pretty far out in suburbia.)
My old Lakewood stomping grounds, the Gold Coast (along with 117/Clifton), appears to be sadly in decline these days. Lots of ragtaggy looking people around... I find myself wondering if there's been a sharp uptick in Section 8 living there.
Ohio City has a lot of energy along West 25th Street and some nearby areas, but then look at the people you see outdoors day to day. Too many ghetto trash. Last time I was down there, while cutting across Market Square (or whatever that park at 25/Lorain is called), some ghetto woman started harassing a yuppie-looking man about his dog that he was walking... and then a block over on West 26th, some other ghetto woman nearly ran me over with her bicycle and then started cussing me out. I was thinking about maybe moving back there at some point (I grew up in the area long before it was hip and trendy), but experiences like that make me think otherwise. Sometimes down there I feel like I'm in some alien third-world country. Chicago's North Side was oh, so different. Sure, there were people like that around on the streets, but they were vastly outnumbered.
I'm impressed with Gordon Square, but the nice area along Detroit is just so short -- a few blocks and you're out of it already... and there's no place to buy groceries except that Save-A-Lot at 58/Detroit, and that store is just so ghetto... again, I could go on and on.
Coventry is good, but again, a very small area, three blocks... Larchmere is OK... I haven't been to Cedar Lee or North Collinwood since I've been back, so I can't comment... Asiatown has some good things happening here and there, but it's not nearly cohesive enough... too many parts of it still look rather desolate like nothing's there... the area still looks like it could use a good face lifting.
University Circle is just about the only place in Cleveland where I feel like I'm in a real, vibrant big city. I'm liking all the new construction over there.
You've put it very well...this is what I've been experiencing. I heard so much about Lakewood but was underwhelmed when I went over there. The west end is kind of cute though. I went to Crocker Park and to Legacy Village and got a completely different feel and wished the rest of Cleveland had more of that feel but it doesn't except in University Circle area as you point out. The rest of the city feels dead and ghetto, as you say (except for a couple of small areas here and there). The Warehouse area downtown is nice but I don't like much else there (couldn't believe there are no major stores there anymore). Something just feels off to me. I hope it's getting better though.
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