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As an outsider,. . . it just seems like a twist on the arrogant southern culture with a SW, rancher, cowboy attitude.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Texans are state proud for many reasons. This will help you understand better, from an old football coach from Texas Bum Phillips as posted in the Texas forum:
Yeah, "slightly" doesn't quite do the job when the state routinely hands double-digit losses to Democrats and expresses a political ideology similar to South Carolina's. If that's the case, then why not say that Maryland is only "slightly" less southern than Texas? Or better yet, say that Maryland is only "slightly" less southern than Florida? The difference between Maryland and Florida--in actual voting results--is not much different than the difference between Florida and Texas.
All of the things that could be said to make Maryland less southern than Texas (more liberal, few Southern Baptists, fewer southern accents) could also be said to make Florida less southern than Texas. And these differences can be quantified.
Ok, Texas is a Red State, it has a large right-wing ideological lean.....Annnnd? The argument I'd say gives Florida the "less Southern" edge over Texas, is the amount of culturally Non-Southern Whites. Outside of that, the minority populations of Both states, seem to either be culturally Southern on the same scale, or culturally Non-Southern on the same scale. Millions of Hispanics in Texas with no culturally leaning towards the South(even in cities like Houston which are firmly in the South) and many Blacks in Florida, who still attend Baptist churches, and speak with Southern vernacular. In regards to Maryland, you can argue the states "Non-Southernerss" just based on history. It wasn't part of the Confederacy. Florida was. I think that, more than anything should count for something.
Barely anybody in Texas talks fast. The Western part of the South is known for slow talkers. Georgia, Florida, and even Alabama people talk faster.
Spade I have talk to people in South Carolina , Alabama and people in the city of Atlanta in Georgia and they talk much slower than Texas even softer spoken.On the other side of it , some people in Georgia like in the TV show Here comes honey boo boo talk so fast yes faster than northerners that some times it sounds like words running into each other if you not use to it.
So what is Texas in your opinion? Would you say it's southern with a Spanish "twist" the way Louisiana is southern with a French Catholic "twist"?
For the most part, yes, as well as some German and hints of Cajun & Creole. And, like Louisiana, these influences are stronger in some parts of the state than they are others.
Quote:
I have heard many people--from Louisiana and from elsewhere--say that Louisiana is not really southern because people have surnames such as Mathieu, Landrieu, Marchand, etc. I never bought that argument.
Exactly. It's a point I've brought up COUNTLESS times but to no avail. They continue to insist that Texas isn't southern because of its differences and eclectic mix of influences, yet don't apply the same rule to Louisiana. I've even brought up the fact that Louisiana has its own cowboys and ranching culture, but it's always overlooked as irrelevant.
In short, there is little to no logic in the "Texas isn't the South" arguments.
For the most part, yes, as well as some German and hints of Cajun & Creole. And, like Louisiana, these influences are stronger in some parts of the state than they are others.
Exactly. It's a point I've brought up COUNTLESS times but to no avail. They continue to insist that Texas isn't southern because of its differences and eclectic mix of influences, yet don't apply the same rule to Louisiana. I've even brought up the fact that Louisiana has its own cowboys and ranching culture, but it's always overlooked as irrelevant.
In short, there is little to no logic in the "Texas isn't the South" arguments.
The huge difference between the French influence on Louisiana and the Mexican influence on Texas is that Louisiana does not share a 1500 mile long border with France and thousands of French people are not moving to Louisiana every year. The Mexican, and it is Mexican, not Spanish, not Latino, influence on Texas is of an entirely different order. The Tejano/as of South Texas have been there for hundreds of years. Spanish, not English is the dominant language in the Rio Grande Valley, chunks of Houston, Dallas, even Austin, and is probably the majority language spoken at home in El Paso and perhaps San Antonio too. It is a huge asset to be bilingual in the state of Texas. No-one cares whether or not you can speak French in Louisiana. The Mexican component of Texas is central to the state's economy, history, culture, identity and future in ways that make it very unevenly "southern." Roughly a third of all Texans are Mexican descendants, and they are the fastest growing demographic. To many of them, Texas is El Norte not "the South."
To get back on topic, I think it makes sense that this poll is so close. TX and FL are arguably two of the least Southern states who were once members of the Confederacy.I think Texas's status as a border state and the ONLY member of the former confederate states to have an international border has meant that its southern historical elements (and only a fool would claim that Texas is devoid of powerful southern influences) have been contested and diluted for much longer than Florida's. So I think the 4 century ongoing relationship between Mexico and Texas makes Texas less Southern than Florida.YMMV.
P.S. I also think the politics thing kinda silly: Utah votes Republican probably more reliably than Texas, so is it Southern too?
Here's an interesting article from UT-Austin's "Texas English Project."
Quote:
As part of the Texas English Project, linguistics graduate student Kate Shaw Points records and analyzes interviews with Texas-born Hispanic East Austin residents. Among her surprising findings, she discovered Latinos are proudly embracing the dialect of their home state.
“Some past research has suggested that minority ethnic groups tend not to follow the language norms of the majority group,” Points said. But I found they are using the Anglo pronunciations of the long ‘oo’ vowels, which was very unexpected.”
That “oo” sound is produced by a “fronted” manner, meaning they pronounce a single vowel with the tongue and lips in a fixed position towards the front of the mouth. When discussing topics like Tex-Mex cuisine, family and regional pride, the speakers often enunciate words like “fewd” (food) or “shew” (shoe).
This probably explains why Texas still falls within the southern dialect boundary. Not only do whites have a southern dialect, but the Hispanic community is adopting elements of the accent as well.
-had the largest number of Southern Baptists (and one of the highest percentages) in the nation
-had a history of being in the South and
-were a member of the Southern Legislative Conference and Southern Governor's Association...
Then yes, we could consider Utah a southern state. As it turns out, Utah...
-was settled by Mormons
-falls within the "American West" dialect boundary
-has no history of being associated with the American South
-is a member of the Western Legislative Conference
I agree and you make my point for me: Voting patterns are not determinative of regional identity or history. And while elements of Texas are distinctly Southern, the history of Texas is a lot more complicated. The Bushes are latter day carpet-bagging Yankees from Connecticut. W was born in New Haven, finished high school in Andover, MA and went on to Yale and then Harvard. The family is barely Texan, though W could play one on tv, and not remotely Southern. The last Texan president, LBJ, was the president who signed the Civil Rights Act. The big Texas cities - all of them, with the exception of Fort Worth - are reliably blue. Texas is electorally so conservative because it has been gerrymandered to hell, a tradition started by the democrats when they were in power.
Texas is not remotely as cut and dried Southern as you make out. It is not definitively more Southern than Florida. Texas is too big, too diverse and too fractious to be confined to a single regional identity. If it is southern, it is fringe southern, borderline/borderland southern, disputed/contested southern. The survey you cite saying 68% of Texans identify as southern looks like it was conducted only in English, which totally skews the results. Data is good, but experience is also valuable, come down and visit. For me, only a small part of East Texas, behind the pine curtain from north of Houston to Texarkana (Tyler, Longview et al) and the golden triangle part of the gulf coast between Houston and the Louisiana border and the city of Galveston, which is like a mini New Orleans feel obviously Southern in terms of topography, accents, vegetation, food, architecture, culture etc. The rest of the state is a very mixed bag with southern elements mixed in with many other variables and other parts of the state feel NOTHING like the south: the trans-pecos, the valley. Dallas and Houston are huge cosmopolitan sunbelt cities, a bit like Atlanta, a bit like Phoenix, a bit like Los Angeles. Austin, San Antonio and Fort Worth could only be in Texas.
I think this dead heat poll kinda has it right. Texas will join NM and California as states where the largest ethnic group is of Latino descent very soon if demographic trends hold, no former Confederate state except perhaps Florida will do that in my lifetime, and it is going to take a while. Texas is not demographically southern, most of it is not topographically southern either. Many Texans will have tamales for Christmas and Black eyed peas for New Years and have for decades. It is a hybrid kinda place with massive cultural variations. Its Texas, not the south, not the southwest, not northern Mexico.
The huge difference between the French influence on Louisiana and the Mexican influence on Texas is that Louisiana does not share a 1500 mile long border with France and thousands of French people are not moving to Louisiana every year. The Mexican, and it is Mexican, not Spanish, not Latino, influence on Texas is of an entirely different order. The Tejano/as of South Texas have been there for hundreds of years. Spanish, not English is the dominant language in the Rio Grande Valley, chunks of Houston, Dallas, even Austin, and is probably the majority language spoken at home in El Paso and perhaps San Antonio too. It is a huge asset to be bilingual in the state of Texas. No-one cares whether or not you can speak French in Louisiana. The Mexican component of Texas is central to the state's economy, history, culture, identity and future in ways that make it very unevenly "southern." Roughly a third of all Texans are Mexican descendants, and they are the fastest growing demographic. To many of them, Texas is El Norte not "the South."
Of course Mexico has a huge influence on Texas, as a whole. I haven't seen anyone deny that, but what none of you have been able to make clear is why Mexican influence automatically makes a place un-southern, especially in cities like Houston or Dallas, where it can't even be said that Mexicans influence the area more than the South does? It is not a one way street, and never has been. Where is it written that "Southern" can only be applied to those areas of strict Scotch-Irish and African ancestry? That isn't even the case in (ahem) Louisiana.
Louisiana hasn't had any direct relationship with France for ages. The Acadian and Haitian Creole influences are alive and well in the state, though. Like Texas, these cultures have their own foods, languages, accents, customs, styles of dress, etc. If you ask many New Orleanians about their city, they'll proudly tell you that they do their own thing. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of them did not consider themselves real southerners. Hell, they don't even really do sweet tea. Even with the pronunciation of the city name, if you say it as "Nawlins" with the same tired drawl that you would say "Savannah", you will be corrected (or looked at like you're stupid). At the end of the day, Louisiana may not border a foreign country, but in a city like NO, it might as well. Like any city in Texas, it isn't your typical fried chicken and greens type of town. It's more gumbo and muffulettas. Truth be told, the city is much more of a melting pot than any place in Texas has yet to become.
Its Texas, not the south, not the southwest, not northern Mexico.
Well, several of us feel that one does not necessarily cancel out the other.
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