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=TexasTwoFace;34054789]Well, for 25 percent of the current population of the state English isn't their first language but they still count towards the culture of the state.
Oh please, let's don't get all politically correct here...which it seems you are doing. If 25% (which it isn't, anyway in Texas) of the "current population" in which English is not very high on the priority of the same to learn and embrace... it really only translates (no pun intended) into that the said state is becoming more and more "balkanized", and two (or more) separate cultures emerging and definitely naturally segregated (southern California is a prime example).
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These are the people we see, and talk to, and eat with, and throw parties with on a daily basis, so if someone is conducting polls and not including them then they are not truly capturing the essence of the state.
Stop right there. Be a little more specific and spare the supercilious mini-lecture, ok? Please fill in the blanks on how you -- as in first person -- talk to, eat with, and "throw parties" with those whom you feel are somehow "excluded" from the poll. Do they speak English and capable of understanding the wording of the surveys? If so, what is the issue at all? If not, then....wellllll, actually I would kinda wonder how you communicate with them at the parties and etc, you speak of...?
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Plus what you just posted was a survey that ended in 1999, that's 15 years ago, that is wildly out of date considering the population explosion.
*shrug* Yes, it is. So post two of your own that are more recent and at least equally extensive, and in numbers and years and spanning a demographic spectrum!
When you can do that? Then you will have thesis of consequence! I await...and I mean that sincerely!
I don't know what you mean by a "requisite." Is a state required to have a lot of Southern Baptists to be southern? I would say "No" since Maryland was a southern state less than 50 years ago without a large presence of Southern Baptists. But Southern Baptists are indeed a defining feature of the Deep South (and Louisiana has a lot of Southern Baptists actually...they are 18% of the total population, second only to Catholics). The Southern Baptist Convention is one of the defining features of Deep South culture along with southern accents. If we can't agree on that, then we'll just agree that there's absolutely no such thing as southern culture at all.
It's not complicated. It's the same way we can point to certain things about Maryland (faded southern accents, lack of Southern Baptists, fewer people identifying as southern, more liberal politics, etc.) to say that it's no longer in line with the South. It's not a difficult calculation. Florida is not where Maryland is as far as shaking off its southern identity, but it's shed traditionally southern characteristics to a much greater degree than Texas has.
it is that complicated when a large portion of the state has no cultural, religious, or linguistic ties to the South. The non Tejano immigrant Mexican population is almost as large as the Texas raised Tejano population.
I meant infleunce not meaning a heavy german accent but subtle sounds and words and phrasing that entered Texas English years and years ago. I guess it depends on how we define heavy in this situation but yes we are essientially agreeing.
And I don't think it is true that we keep seperate, I went to school with Mexicans, we talked, hung out, did as kids do, and through high school and college we didn't split off or anything, we were always friends. And I know this is just anecdotal but most white people I know are more likely to drink tequila than whiskey or bourbon, we love to throw Cinco de Maya parties, we speak enough broken spanish to converse successfully with those who barely speak any english. And I'm a white guy that is multi-generational Texan with no Mexican heritage. The cultures merge more and more everyday. Between my friends we now have a running joke where we no longer call Tex-Mex has such, just simply food since in our mind it is our native food.
But my point has never been solely been about the Mexican influence but always been that Texas is a a huge place that has been heavily influenced by many, many different factors and today it's unique culture sets it apart from the deep South. It's developed tastes and diversities that other southern states never have, not in these numbers.
I work with Mexicans on a daily basis. I find it hard to imagine I could get around Dallas County without running into needing to talk to someone of Mexican descent many, many times. I really question how I could run a business without it unless I really, really really wanted to cut my customer base in half.
I meant infleunce not meaning a heavy german accent but subtle sounds and words and phrasing that entered Texas English years and years ago. I guess it depends on how we define heavy in this situation but yes we are essientially agreeing.
And I don't think it is true that we keep seperate, I went to school with Mexicans, we talked, hung out, did as kids do, and through high school and college we didn't split off or anything, we were always friends. And I know this is just anecdotal but most white people I know are more likely to drink tequila than whiskey or bourbon, we love to throw Cinco de Maya parties, we speak enough broken spanish to converse successfully with those who barely speak any english. And I'm a white guy that is multi-generational Texan with no Mexican heritage. The cultures merge more and more everyday. Between my friends we now have a running joke where we no longer call Tex-Mex has such, just simply food since in our mind it is our native food.
But my point has never been solely been about the Mexican influence but always been that Texas is a a huge place that has been heavily influenced by many, many different factors and today it's unique culture sets it apart from the deep South. It's developed tastes and diversities that other southern states never have, not in these numbers.
I will reply in more detail tomorrow...getting hungry and gotta hit the sack and get ready for work early tomorrow, so I will hit this one tomorrow sometime. But just as a point in mention? I don't know of any "white people" (not saying there aren't), who really "celebrate" Cinco de Maya as anything but an excuse to drink and party a bit! LOL C'mon.
And Tex-Mex? It is a combination of Texas, Southern, and Mexican. Most in the self-identified Hispanic community would not think of it as "Mexican" food at all. And hey, I happen to LIKE authentic Mexican food. But the two are separate....
Maybe with you living in the DFW area, your experience is much different that mine (and I dare say with strong certainty) and that most of us do not speak any sort of "broken Spanish" at all.
Yes, Texas is a huge place and no question that Texas is TEXAS. That has never been a point of contention at all. Because it is "western South" it is different in notable ways from the "eastern South", due to its largely post-bellum frontier history. But the essential nature of the state is Southern...and almost all aspects of Texas that make it unique are really just the South moved west. If the Southern roots and foundations and traits and aspects of Texas could be removed from it, then it would not be recognizable as Texas at all...
On the other hand, remove any real historical/cultural influence of the West (i.e. interior SW or Rocky Mountain), then nothing would be any different at all (except incidentally). Mexican/Spanish? Yes, there would be a point there....but not much different than removing the French Cajun on Louisiana...and that is a compliment, far as that goes...
But anyway, thanks for a good reply and we can rejoin tomorrow or something! Right now, the chicken fried steak is calling me home! LOL
I meant infleunce not meaning a heavy german accent but subtle sounds and words and phrasing that entered Texas English years and years ago. I guess it depends on how we define heavy in this situation but yes we are essientially agreeing.
And I don't think it is true that we keep seperate, I went to school with Mexicans, we talked, hung out, did as kids do, and through high school and college we didn't split off or anything, we were always friends. And I know this is just anecdotal but most white people I know are more likely to drink tequila than whiskey or bourbon, we love to throw Cinco de Maya parties, we speak enough broken spanish to converse successfully with those who barely speak any english. And I'm a white guy that is multi-generational Texan with no Mexican heritage. The cultures merge more and more everyday. Between my friends we now have a running joke where we no longer call Tex-Mex has such, just simply food since in our mind it is our native food.
But my point has never been solely been about the Mexican influence but always been that Texas is a a huge place that has been heavily influenced by many, many different factors and today it's unique culture sets it apart from the deep South. It's developed tastes and diversities that other southern states never have, not in these numbers.
I agree with most of what you say. Texas in today's works is to mixed to be considered southern.
And texrob, how is Tex mex southern exactly?
And what's the difference between Texans celebrating Cinco de Mayo and people celebrating St Patricks
As an outsider,. . . it just seems like a twist on the arrogant southern culture with a SW, rancher, cowboy attitude.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
More influences come from Spain/Mexico, than what you'd typically find in other Southern states, even if those Southern states were also once Spanish in origin(IE Louisiana). Tejano Music for one, is a regional twist on Mexican music, that has origins in Texas, and is extremely distinct than what you'd find anywhere in the South, or on the whole East-Coast for that matter.
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