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It is going to be very intersting to see if blacks will look at Dallas and Houston more now that Atlanta is economy is tanking. There is no question Atlanta is by far the leader in black numerical gains.
While we aren't doing as well as Dallas or Houston at the moment (who is, other than D.C.), the Atlanta economy is HARDLY tanking.
I suspect this is nothing more than wishful thinking on your part.
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UTHORNS96
And to the sensitive people that get offended by the question, chill out. We know there are black people everywhere. But since we are the overwhelming minority in most places in the country, there's absolutely nothing wrong with asking where our culture is most dominant and where we tend to be most successful.
I should add that, to me at least, it seems some people do not understand when discussing this topic is that African-Americans are unlike other groups of Americans from Whites to Asians to Hispanics and hell other groups of black people such as Afro-Caribbeans, Afro-Latinos and native African immigrants: We have no "home" country.
You see, our ancestors were brought here under bondage and stripped of their language and culture (and in a far more destructive way than our cousins in the Caribbean and Latin America). This means that while we can all trace back our genetic lineage to Africa, we have no idea where we come from. No connection to the language, the customs, the culture, the people. Nothing.
In short, talking about what American city best exemplifies African-American culture is not being a separatist at all as the United States is now our homeland and no place else. It is a distinct culture that can only be found here in the United States and by discussing it separately from the American experience or pointing out which cities best embody this unique culture we keep it alive. In fact, it's exactly the same as someone calling themselves a Italian-American.
And seriously, is this any different than any other group of people in America?
If you are a White American, and someone asked you where you were from, you would think of yourself likely as an American first....and then go into talking about your Irish or Italian or whatever ancestors.
If you are an Asian American, even if your family has been her for several generations, you will likely identify yourself with your ancestors home country. For example Japanese-American, Korean-American, Chinese-American, etc.
Same thing goes for Latinos and recent immigrants from Africa.
The situation for African-Americans is the same as it is for Native Americans. Does any one think it odd for a Cherokee or Apache to think of themselves in those terms and simultaneously as Americans? Has it escaped anyone's notice that they too descended from Asians who came to the Americas 10,000 years ago?
Our rich cultural heritage is what makes America "America". It would be a damned shame for us to lose that.
I should add that, to me at least, it seems some people do not understand when discussing this topic is that African-Americans are unlike other groups of Americans from Whites to Asians to Hispanics and hell other groups of black people such as Afro-Caribbeans, Afro-Latinos and native African immigrants: We have no "home" country.
You see, our ancestors were brought here under bondage and stripped of their language and culture (and in a far more destructive way than our cousins in the Caribbean and Latin America). This means that while we can all trace back our genetic lineage to Africa, we have no idea where we come from. No connection to the language, the customs, the culture, the people. Nothing.
In short, talking about what American city best exemplifies African-American culture is not being a separatist at all as the United States is now our homeland and no place else. It is a distinct culture that can only be found here in the United States and by discussing it separately from the American experience or pointing out which cities best embody this unique culture we keep it alive. In fact, it's exactly the same as someone calling themselves a Italian-American.
And seriously, is this any different than any other group of people in America?
If you are a White American, and someone asked you where you were from, you would think of yourself likely as an American first....and then go into talking about your Irish or Italian or whatever ancestors.
If you are an Asian American, even if your family has been her for several generations, you will likely identify yourself with your ancestors home country. For example Japanese-American, Korean-American, Chinese-American, etc.
Same thing goes for Latinos and recent immigrants from Africa.
The situation for African-Americans is the same as it is for Native Americans. Does any one think it odd for a Cherokee or Apache to think of themselves in those terms and simultaneously as Americans? Has it escaped anyone's notice that they too descended from Asians who came to the Americas 10,000 years ago?
Our rich cultural heritage is what makes America "America". It would be a damned shame for us to lose that.
Best post of the thread, in my opinion, and one that tells how I feel much more eloquently than I have the patience for on CD.
The problem with the way most of these assimilationists think is they don't value our unique cultural identity. Do I want to segregate myself? No! I wouldn't be at UT if I did. But if I would prefer to live in one of the "black meccas" after I graduate, there is nothing wrong with that.These black people that talk about how we need to "integrate" and "assimilate" never get upset at whites for not rushing to move to Memphis or Detroit.
The things you named are all good, but are relatively recent developemnts.
I see that you sidestepped my actual argument, probably because you saw how inane it was to equate Atlanta with Auschwitz.
Firstly, it's only been relatively recently that Blacks have been afforded the full opportunities that we now enjoy. I appreciate Philly's role in Black history, but like Janet asked, "What have you done for me lately?"
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Lets not forget about the hundreds of years in which Blacks were stripped of their names, seperated from their families, barred from education, and generally murdered. That was most prevalent in the south, especially the deep south.
This is true, but it seems as though you're not aware that slavery was not an equally-distributed phenomenon even throughout the Deep South. Typically, the coastal plain areas of the South (e.g, tidewater Virginia, eastern NC, SC and GA Lowcountry, etc.) is where slavery was most prevalent because those were the areas where the land was conducive to growing the cash crops that slaves were imported to cultivate as opposed to the Piedmont region (where Atlanta lies), which had much less slaves and were more known for the prevalence of poor Scots-Irish yeomen farmers.
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Philadelphia was the epicenter of the abolitionist, far more important than the civil rights(black dependence) farce.
A couple of points here. Firstly, the abolitionist and Civil Rights movements are two sides of the same coin. The former is something of a forerunner of the latter, because abolitionism in and of itself did not guarantee slaves and their descendants equal protection under the law; it was only concerned with the elimination of the institution itself. Secondly, I fail to see where Philadelphia in particular seized upon any demonstrable, tangible gains produced by the abolitionist movement like Atlanta has done with the Civil Rights movement. Thirdly, I believe that people should depend on the government to protect their basic rights and ensure their equality under the law.
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Atlanta is significant in black American history, but more in a "let my people go" kind of way. Atlanta is the stereotype of black culture pushed by Uncle Toms like tyler perry and the such. Madea, and Meet the Browns etc. is not even close to being authentic black culture. TV and the media likes to portray most blacks as either comedic buffoons or career criminals, which couldn't be further from the truth. Just ask Spike Lee.
Atlanta is exactly what the popular media wants black culture to be, and has no real relationship authentic black american culture.
I like how you take one very recent development in Black life in Atlanta and then use it to conclude that its Black culture isn't authentic. Actually I don't like it and am a bit put off that you think that such shallow, illogical reasoning could actually fly here. So you simply sidestep the Black political, civic, business, and educational power that Atlanta has amassed over the past four decades or so and say that none of that counts because Atlanta is now home to a self-made millionaire who gained his popularity by playing a comedic older women in most of his plays and movies. Seriously dude, you need to come better than that.
What seems to come through to me is that you're somehow regarding Blacks who have made a thoughtful, intelligent decision to make Atlanta their home as misguided at best or flat-out ignorant at worst for having done so based on nothing more than Atlanta being in the region that historically had the most slaves (even if slavery wasn't popular in Atlanta itself) and because Tyler Perry is based there. I don't even know how to come back at that dude.
In my opion, there's no one "Capital of Black America". However, the cities that make a strong case for it will be Chicago, DC, Atlanta, New York, Philly and maybe Houston.
Atlanta gets the most media attention, but I think its because of the black presence in that city dominates the scene more than any of the other city in the nation. The mayor is black, the police and fire chief is black, the city council is majority black, majority of the entertainers are black, a lot of the rich folks are black, a lot of black universities, black own businesses, etc. The media plays a bigger role in portraying the ATL as the "Black Mecca". For example, "The Real Housewives of Atlanta" are mostly black, but the "Housewives of DC" are mostly white. DC is just as black as Atlanta (black people even live in the whitehouse). Both cities are pretty identical, but for what ever reason, black Atlanta gets talked about more.
With that said, I'm still not quick to call Atlanta the "Black Mecca" just yet. Their are still many other cities, like DC, that has strong case to be a "Black Mecca".
I'm from Chicago. Chicago was founded by a Black guy, John Baptiste Pointe DuSable. Atlanta might have Tyler Perry, but we have Oprah (not for long though), who made Tyler Perry a household name. Atlanta have Hank Aaron, Domonique Wilkens and Michael Vick (used to have), Chicago has Michael Jordan, Walter Payton, Ernie Banks (and a slew of baseball players). Atlanta has Bronner Brother, Chicago had Johnson's Products and still have Soft Sheen-Carson (which is now owned by L'Oreal). As far as Civil Rights, Atlanta had Martin Luther King, Chicago had Elijah Muhammad and still has Louis Farrakhan and Jesse Jackson. Atlanta had more black mayors than Chicago, but the first black President, first lady and the first black man and woman to run for president (Carol Mosely Braun and Jesse Jackson) are from Chicago. Atlanta has tons of hip hop stars, but Kanye West is still the most popular and recognizable. Atlanta have Collier Heights, Chicago has Bronzeville/Kenwood and Chatham/Pill Hill. Atlanta is a mecca for Hip Hop and Gospel, but Chicago is a mecca for Blues, Jazz, House as well as Gospel. Both areas are equal as far as Black history and population. Chicago has Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Atlanta has Bishop Eddie Long (lmao.).
I'm not saying Chicago is the "Black Mecca". Although, at one time it was. I am simply saying that a lot of these cities have a strong case of being a center of black culture. Although, Atlanta might have the strongest case, I still believe that it is more hype than anything.
Last edited by suburban_boy; 10-14-2010 at 02:13 PM..
Also, having black capitals is what is going to continue to keep this nation segregated. We need to become more integrated. When blacks wanting to move to a place without little research, they may be guided at this poll/thread when deciding their relocation. It's not fair that we always have to have a place just dedicated to us. We should be able to do better and good in cities like Portland, Seattle, Billings, Anchorage, and other places in oppose to these self-proclaimed black meccas and capitals. I thought this was America.
Birmingham's not on the list and no one would except you would vote for it if it were. Get over it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kazoopilot
We need more people who think like this.
Simplistically? I think not. People are taking the idea of a "Black capital" in this thread in a much different direction than it was intended. For one, someone is stupid if they think it means that all Black people should live in just one city or a handful of cities. If you (generally speaking) can't think critically to the point of understanding that historical and cultural factors have led certain cities to have a concentration of Black political, business, civic, educational, etc. power and influence beyond and above that of other cities, then I don't even think you're tall enough to ride this particular ride.
In my opion, there's no one "Capital of Black America". However, the cities that make a strong case for it will be Chicago, DC, Atlanta, New York and maybe Houston.
Atlanta gets the most media attention, but I think its because of the black presence in that city dominates the scene more than any of the other city in the nation. The mayor is black, the police and fire chief is black, the city council is majority black, majority of the entertainers are black, a lot of the rich folks are black, a lot of black universities, black own businesses, etc. The media plays a bigger role in portraying the ATL as the "Black Mecca". For example, "The Real Housewives of Atlanta" are mostly black, but the "Housewives of DC" are mostly white. DC is just as black as Atlanta (black people even live in the whitehouse). Both cities are pretty identical, but for what ever reason, black Atlanta gets talked about more.
One reason I think Atlanta gets talked about more than DC in this regard is because 1) DC is the nation's capital, so it would be a little weird for it to be billed as the mecca of just one group of people and 2) Atlanta made more of a concerted effort to be a city that was welcoming and empowering for Blacks.
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I'm from Chicago. Chicago was founded by a Black guy, John Baptiste Pointe DuSable. Atlanta might have Tyler Perry, but we have Oprah (not for long though), who made Tyler Perry a household name. Atlanta have Hank Aaron, Domonique Wilkens and Michael Vick (used to have), Chicago has Michael Jordan, Walter Payton, Ernie Banks (and a slew of baseball players). Atlanta has Bronner Brother, Chicago had Johnson's Products and still have Soft Sheen-Carson (which is now owned by L'Oreal). As far as Civil Rights, Atlanta had Martin Luther King, Chicago had Elijah Muhammad and still has Louis Farrakhan and Jesse Jackson. Atlanta had more black mayors than Chicago, but the first black President, first lady and the first black man and woman to run for president (Carol Mosely Braun and Jesse Jackson) are from Chicago. Atlanta has tons of hip hop stars, but Kanye West is still the most popular and recognizable. Atlanta have Collier Heights, Chicago has Bronzeville/Kenwood and Chatham/Pill Hill. Atlanta is a mecca for Hip Hop and Gospel, but Chicago is a mecca for Blues, Jazz, House as well as Gospel. Both areas are equal as far as Black history and population. Chicago has Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Atlanta has Bishop Eddie Long (lmao.).
You wrong for that last statement (ROFL!), but you're right about Chicago. It can definitely still lay a claim to this status. One slight correction though: Chicago is much more of a mecca for Gospel music, historically and presently, than Atlanta is. As a matter of fact, I'd say there are four cities that are the historical epicenters of Black music: New Orleans, Memphis, Chicago, and Detroit.
Location: Detroit's eastside, downtown Detroit in near future!
2,053 posts, read 4,392,349 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eek
this is pretty much all i was trying to say.
i'm trying to picture everybody but ppl in detroit running to the store to cop sslp and mmlp circia 99-2001...
for the record, i'm not from detroit at all...but i specifically remember getting into debates with a dude from detroit around 2002-2003 on the net who swore up and down that shady records/aftermath had the illest roster and he messed with em heavily.
at the time i was a fan of the roc so i wasn't buying that and we always went back and forth. so basically his opinion is the complete opposite of detroitloves...and he's from the same city as you, detroitlove. its too bad he no longer posts because i'd like to ask him some questions and show him this thread.
wow you really remember an internet argument from 8 years ago lol
so because one guy who claims he's from Detroit gives HIS opinion on Em vs me saying Detroit as WHOLE does not give Em the respect the media tends to portray he has in the city gives you reasons to think otherwise? Like I said from 99-2001 (as far as local artist) people in the city were way more into the Eastside Chedda Boys, the Streetlords and Rock Bottom. If you knew anything about Detroit you'd know that those groups basically ran Detroit hip hop scene in 99-2001. You couldn't go anywhere in the city without hearing their songs. Everybody had atleast one of their albums.
and if you want to take it there I've seen penty of comments on facebook, youtube, other forums etc of Detroit people dissing Em, plenty of comments from people on YT shouting out all the rappers I named without including Em, still to this day you can go to a club in Detroit and hear the ESCB, STL and Rock Bottom old stuff from the 90s and not hear a recent Em song, or the simple fact I know plenty of people who get annoyed when they go out of town and somebody asks about Em and 8mile and will point out that Em isn't from Detroit etc so your point?
what's funny to me is you keep trying to argue with me about stuff here but your not a Detroiter. You're basically try to say because YOU don't believe that a lot of people were copping the ESCB and STL albums over Em its true lol Here is an article about the ESCB from when one of them got killed. They talk about records sells somewhere in there
Now what I still want to know is how you came up with this theory that our artist were not marketable without hearing them?
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), who made Tyler Perry a household name. Atlanta have Hank Aaron, Domonique Wilkens and Michael Vick (used to have), Chicago has Michael Jordan, Walter Payton, Ernie Banks (and a slew of baseball players). Atlanta has Bronner Brother, Chicago had Johnson's Products and still have Soft Sheen-Carson (which is now owned by L'Oreal). As far as Civil Rights, Atlanta had Martin Luther King, Chicago had Elijah Muhammad and still has Louis Farrakhan and Jesse Jackson. Atlanta had more black mayors than Chicago, but the first black President, first lady and the first black man and woman to run for president (Carol Mosely Braun and Jesse Jackson) are from Chicago. Atlanta has tons of hip hop stars, but Kanye West is still the most popular and recognizable. Atlanta have Collier Heights, Chicago has Bronzeville/Kenwood and Chatham/Pill Hill. Atlanta is a mecca for Hip Hop and Gospel, but Chicago is a mecca for Blues, Jazz, House as well as Gospel. Both areas are equal as far as Black history and population. Chicago has Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Atlanta has Bishop Eddie Long (lmao.
lol
