Open Debate - Is Universalism Biblical - A Preterist's perspective (Micah, women)
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Originally Posted by Eusebius Universalism is not in the Bible but "God will save all mankind (Lit. all humans)" is.
Also, 1 Corinthians 15:22-28 has God's goal for all mankind: God All in all. Not All in some. You lose. We win.
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Originally Posted by sciotamicks
Eusebius, if you want to participate, show me that you can, but from this alone, doesn't hold weight to your view.
You are wrong. You lose. God is all in all already with his church. Justification complete. You lose again.
Next please.
In order for God to be All in all, death must be abolished for ALL mankind.
1 Corinthians 15:22-28 is not talking about God being All in just the church.
When is this abolishment of death to take place. . .
1Cor.15:26 "The last enemy is being abolished: death."
There are several events which must take place prior to death's abolishment:
Christ must give up the kingdom (1 Cor.15:24)
Christ must quit reigning (1 Cor.15:25)
All sovereignty, authority and power must be nullified (1 Cor.15:24)
After the above occur, death then will be abolished.
Notice all the above three events are still going on in John's Revelation, so Paul sees way beyond Revelation.
In Revelation the second death is still active so death is not yet abolished. So the only death left can only be the second death needing abolishment. When the second death is abolished then all those held by it will come forth, be subjected to Christ and then they will have God All in all of them just as He will be in us.
So there are really three different groups in 1 Corinthians 15:22-28
"Yet each in his own class"
Christ, the Firstfruit (class) 15:23
They that are Christ's (class) 15:23
Thereafter the consummation (class) 15:24
Classes 1 and 2 above do not nearly fill up the "even as all in Adam, all are dying, thus also in Christ shall all be vivified" so there needs to be a third group verse 24.
Spiros Zodhiates, a great Greek scholar says concerning 1 Corinthians 15:22-28 that, "yes, this passage is dealing with all mankind but, God will be all to the unbeliever that He must be and all to the believer He desires to be." At least Zhodiates got it 50% right. It is talking about all mankind. But it is not about God being "all to all" but ALL IN ALL.
In order for God to be All in all, death must be abolished for ALL mankind.
And hath (hypotassō - Past tense aorist verb))put all [things] under his feet, and gave him [to be] the head over all [things] to the church. Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
Consummated in the church. The New Covenant has been established.
And hath (hypotassō - Past tense aorist verb))put all [things] under his feet, and gave him [to be] the head over all [things] to the church. Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
Consummated in the church. The New Covenant has been established.
Anyone else?
Then Christ quit reigning many years ago, handed over the kingdom to God many years ago, all sovereignty, authority and power annulled many years ago and all mankind subjected to Christ many years ago and the fires of the lake of fire went out many years ago. Hardy har hardly.
Furthermore, the verse you quote is different from 1 Corinthians 15:22-28. Why didn't you give the book, chapter and verse? Because you are afraid we'd find out. Here it is:
"and subjects (aorist) all under His feet, and gives (aorist) Him, as Head over all, to the ecclesia which is His body, the complement of the One completing the all in all." (Eph.1:22,23)
"hath put" is better translated "and subjects" as an aorist which is a word having the sign of past and sign of the future.
Ephesians 1:22,23 is not telling us that the "all in all" has to do just with the ecclesia but that we are just the complement (pleroma) of the One completing the all in all.
To say it is all done and look at the world . . . LOL! is just aweful and puts God in a bad bad light!
Furthermore, sciotamicks, if Christ already subjected all which keeps mankind from salvation under His feet such as the abolition of all sovereignty, authority and power and the abolishment of death, then how come we still have all these things keeping mankind from salvation? duh!
And why do we still have authorities, powers and sovereignties and death if they were all abolished 2000 years ago? double duh!
Oh, wait, they were all to be done away just in our imaginations, not in reality, right? LOL!
Then Christ quit reigning many years ago, handed over the kingdom to God many years ago, all sovereignty, authority and power annulled many years ago and all mankind subjected to Christ many years ago and the fires of the lake of fire went out many years ago. Hardy har hardly.
Haven't you read Daniel 7? Refresh yourself.
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Furthermore, the verse you quote is different from 1 Corinthians 15:22-28. Why didn't you give the book, chapter and verse? Because you are afraid we'd find out.
You, Eusebius are certainly a intersting fellow. I don't put the verse number because I want you to look it up.
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"and subjects (aorist) all under His feet, and gives (aorist) Him, as Head over all, to the ecclesia which is His body, the complement of the One completing the all in all." (Eph.1:22,23)
"hath put" is better translated "and subjects" as an aorist which is a word having the sign of past and sign of the future.
I ask for competent fellows in the interpretation of God's word. Your view Eusebius, is not there by any means, as you have proved time and time again. You are very, very, wrong sir.
Aorist indicative of a past event.
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To say it is all done and look at the world . . . LOL! is just aweful and puts God in a bad bad light!
What part of the kingdom are you having trouble with?
It never existed in the flesh, ever.
The kingdom comes, "without observation".
Furthermore, sciotamicks, if Christ already subjected all which keeps mankind from salvation under His feet such as the abolition of all sovereignty, authority and power and the abolishment of death, then how come we still have all these things keeping mankind from salvation? duh!
And why do we still have authorities, powers and sovereignties and death if they were all abolished 2000 years ago? double duh!
Oh, wait, they were all to be done away just in our imaginations, not in reality, right? LOL!
You seek a fleshly kingdom Eusebius, just like the Saduccees and Pharisses did. Little do you know, that will never happen.
Get back to studying the word of God with eyes that can see.
I can't believe that Calvinists are getting on to Universalists for ripping apart God's Word to fit their own beliefs.
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
Are you going to address the issues in this post? Or just make a comment with no foundation to back your claim up?
Elaborate?
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