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Dispair also known as Depression comes from iniquity, or in other words SIN.
Jesus never sinned, nor was ever in dispair, nor depressed.
It's not me saying we are to, or can become perfect, it is God. There are too many verses to list here. There are over 49 verses that teach perfection, perfect, and perfected in the NT scriptures. Unbelief is a sure way to not reach it.
Emotions are the seeds of thought and action. We surely can sin with our thoughts. It is described in Matthew very clearly how our thoughts and emotions are equal to actions.
The direction this thread has taken, is to make perfection, imperfect, and i find that sad.
godspeed,
freedom
Jesus never sinned is true, but never in despair?? Look at these verses, John 11:35 Then Jesus wept. John 11:38 "And Jesus was deeply troubled. Then they came to the grave. It was a cave with a stone rolled across its entrance". Luke 22:44 "He prayed more fervently, and He was in such agony of spirit that His sweat fell to the ground like great drops of blood".
While I agree with you whole heartedly that Jesus was, is and will always be perfect, I must disagree with you in the position that you are taking here.
I disagree in that Jesus could not have experienced depression. In fact scripture tells us that we are able to overcome everything because of Jesus and His gaining the victory over it all. He came and He was both God and Man. He was subjected to the very same temptations and understands all our struggles and thus is our ever present help in times of need.
Hebrews 4:15 tells us that we do not serve a high priest who doesn't understand our struggles, our weaknesses. It tells us that he was tempted in all areas and yet remained without sin.
Matthew 8:17 tells us that Jesus took on our infirmities and bore our sickness. Thus it is through him that we are healed.
1 Peter 2:24 tells us that Jesus bore all of our sins, all of our transgressions enabling us to die to these things, it is thus by his stripes, by his wounds that we are healed of all these things.
In Matthew 26:38 it says that Jesus told His diciples that He was "exceedingly sorrowful, even to death"... this is knowing full well what was to come, what had to happen, being perfect and willing to do what God had sent Him to do, nevertheless, his human (Man) side felt that exceeding sorrow as the time approached. He also petitioned to our Father in Heaven that if the cup could be taken from Him for it to be so, but you are right, he never sinned, he also told our Father in Heaven, nevertheless your will be done, not mine.
Jesus was led into every temptation and overcame, thus we too can overcome them as well through Him. Likewise we too find ourselves facing temptations, these struggles. But 1 Corinthians 10:13 says that we are not overtaken by any but those comman to man and God is faithful to not tempt us beyond what we can bear and even in our temptations, he provides the way out.
It is not being tempted to depression that is a sin, it is not even experiencing the effects of that depression that is sin. What we do with it is what can make the difference. Jesus relied on God for His strength and for the victory. We too must do the same.
I believe that every human emotion and even illness that is experienced today, Jesus experienced and thus because of that our hope remains in Him for we can be assured that we too can obtain victory over it, just as He did.
This is why we walk by faith and not by sight or by our emotions and because we have our advocate in Heaven, we can come boldly before His throne and receive the mercy and the grace that we so desperately need when we are struggling with something.
Jesus never sinned is true, but never in despair?? Look at these verses, John 11:35 Then Jesus wept. John 11:38 "And Jesus was deeply troubled. Then they came to the grave. It was a cave with a stone rolled across its entrance". Luke 22:44 "He prayed more fervently, and He was in such agony of spirit that His sweat fell to the ground like great drops of blood".
2Cr 4:8 [We are] troubled on every side, yet not distressed; [we are] perplexed, but not in despair;
a christian can be discouraged. when i have lost hope when my adversaries are laughing and jeering standing over me, that is when god steps in and squishes the adversary like a bug. many many times. over the water he heard me and answered. he uses the meek and old to crush the proud and strong.
The OP said "depressed" not "depression". Depressed is : makedispiritedordejected. Also: dispiritedormiserable.
I think we may have all got OT whan we started discussing mental depression !
It may be 2 differant subjects.
It is quite obvious that Jesus was miserable when He was praying in the garden alone.
I think "sorrowful" can be synonymous with "miserable'. Right ?
If PG77 is asking about 'depression', we have pretty well covered both words.
Which ever...I hope she finds peace and joy in the Lord.
2Cr 4:8 [We are] troubled on every side, yet not distressed; [we are] perplexed, but not in despair;
Despair is a sin. Jesus never sinned.
Sorrow and agony, not despair or depression.
godspeed,
freedom
I love that verse, I quoted it earlier in this thread, 2 Cor. 8-9 "We are pressed on every side by troubles, but we are not crushed and broken. We are perplexed, but we don't give up and quit. We are hunted down, but God never abandons us. We get knocked down, but we get up again and keep going".
I do not believe despair is a sin. As Christians we know that whatever comes into our lives we have the power to over it through Jesus.
The OP said "depressed" not "depression". Depressed is : makedispiritedordejected. Also: dispiritedormiserable.
I think we may have all got OT whan we started discussing mental depression !
It may be 2 differant subjects.
It is quite obvious that Jesus was miserable when He was praying in the garden alone.
I think "sorrowful" can be synonymous with "miserable'. Right ?
If PG77 is asking about 'depression', we have pretty well covered both words.
Which ever...I hope she finds peace and joy in the Lord.
Sorrow i equate with heartbreak, misery i associate with self.
The OP said "depressed" not "depression". Depressed is : makedispiritedordejected. Also: dispiritedormiserable.
I think we may have all got OT whan we started discussing mental depression !
It may be 2 differant subjects.
It is quite obvious that Jesus was miserable when He was praying in the garden alone.
I think "sorrowful" can be synonymous with "miserable'. Right ?
If PG77 is asking about 'depression', we have pretty well covered both words.
Which ever...I hope she finds peace and joy in the Lord.
I agree that feeling depressed and depression as a mental condition may in fact be two different subjects while holding some similarities in the sense of the feelings associated with both.
I'd still believe, and not assuming you do or that you have stated otherwise, just giving my thoughts for the sake of the conversation, that if Jesus took our illness' then that would mean depression too. Whether or not He succomb to it or not would be a different subject altogether. But the Bible is clear that He went through and overcame all that we would go through. That He bore all our illness' and thus by His stripes we are healed.
I do not believe that feeling depressed or suffering from depression is a "sin" persay. I believe it is just one of those things that make us the imperfect human beings that we are. I don't believe that being Christian makes us immune to these things any more than it would make us immune to other conditions as well. The difference is that being a Christian, we can draw strength through it all from the strength giver, our source of hope that we can hold on to.
"What is man that you are mindful of him, the son of man that you care for him? You made him a little lower than the angels; you crowned him with glory and honor and put everything under his feet."
In putting everything under him, God left nothing that is not subject to him. Yet at present we do not see everything subject to him. But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.
In bringing many sons to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the author of their salvation perfect through suffering. Both the one who makes men holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers....
For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people. Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.
Yes. Jesus was a human being while He walked on this earth... God came to earth and walked in a body of flesh so that He could experience our pain.
He suffered -- He felt sadness...
He understands our pain.
Last edited by World Citizen; 08-28-2008 at 07:23 PM..
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perfect through suffering...
