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I don't agree that for a Christian to experience any level of depression means that they are not walking hand in hand with God. I know, in my personal experience, there have been times when I have felt "depressed" be it due to anxieties that I am feeling at the moment, overwhelming circumstances that I am facing, a death that has occured, or simply by being under the attack of the enemy (which I may add is in my opinion a frequent occurence for those who are walking hand in hand with God).
I once had a Pastor tell me, if you are not being attacked by the enemy check your walk because it means you are NO threat to him. When we are walking the way of the world, the enemy pretty much sums it up as he has us, we are not walking according to God's ways. However, when we walk hand in hand with God, the enemy shakes for he knows we are a threat. He gets angry because he wants our soul and we have surrendered it to the Lord.
I don't believe that when a Christian experiences depression it means they are away from God. At least in my experience, in these moments when depression or its associated feelings, manifest themselves in my life, it is when I reach out and grab on to God the hardest. I have been known to confess my depression to God in praying, begging and pleading him to forgive me for it and help me through it.
Depression can occur at any given time to any given person. It is simply the results of going through a dark time in life. The bible says there is a time for joy and a time for mourning, a season for everything under the sun. When we go through a dark moment and those feelings of depression creep up, it is not having them that is wrong or un-Christlike, I agree with Alpha in that scripture he provided, Jesus was clearly overtaken by those feelings when He asked God if there were anyway the cup could be taken from Him. However, it is what we do or fail to do with those feelings that makes the difference. Do we dwell in it and allow it to consume us, or do we give it to God and trust Him to make the way for us and heal our hearts. Jesus, in that moment, said nevertheless Lord your will not mine. It is all going to boil down to attitude and us having to rely on God for whatever the outcome may be.
I don't associate depression with not being Christian or even lacking faith sometimes. There are moments when our faith is not so much lacking as it is just simply shaken for a time. However, if we hold on firmly to the hand of God and ask that He not let us slip from His grip, God is faithful and we lift us upon his lap and hold us close. It is in these moments that God carries us.
I am reminded of that poem "Footprints in the sand", when the man questioned God and asked why in his darkest moments there was only one set of footprints on the sand, assuming that he was then walking alone. God replied that it was in those moments that He carried the man, meaning the set of footprints were God's, not the man's.
I believe when we battle those "depression" feelings and we bring them to the Lord in prayer, God carries us and holds us close. He sticks closer to us than a brother and never leaves us or forsakes us. Sometimes our mind and hearts know this, the faith is there, however, it at times takes a bit longer for the feelings to manifest themselves and release us of the anxieties or depression that we may be feeling. Our faith, however, remains as it holds on to God until we see the answer to our prayers and are released of the feelings.
DOTL, I could hardly believe your #18 post ! You lambastedall the previous posters ! Apparently you had not read the first page ! I haven't read past your # 18 post, but if you haven't withdrawn your blanket condemnation...you need to !
Edited:
Okay, now I have read all the rest, and see that most agree....it certainly is possible for a Christian to be depressed. Andthatincludesthosewhoare "walkinghandinhand" withGod. ( I know...you didn't say that DOTL.)
I apologize for coming on so strong in my last post. Mental illness is very close to me and my family and it is severely misunderstood.
I just want to clarify something for those who are unaware of the seriousness and lifelong struggle that comes with true mental illness.
Depression is a word that is used to describe a temporary state of mind that the majority of the people who experience it overcome in a reasonable amount of time through therapy and/or drugs. It is something that will go away because it was caused by a traumatic event.
Depression is also a word used to describe a lifelong illness. This is where all the confusion comes in because the word "depression" is too broadly used to describe very different types of situations.
There is temporary depression, and then there is permanent depression.
Temporary depression presents itself when one experiences tragedy and traumatic events in one's life, and it will pass.
Permanent depression has no rhyme or reason and cannot be explained. The worst thing anyone can ask a permanently depressed person is "why are you depressed?" There is no answer to that question. It's always there, and has to be treated. Even with treatment and therapy, it does not go away. The best one can hope for with this condition is that the prayer, medication and therapy keep the suicide attempts at bay.
Then there's manic-depression, or bi-polar disorder. This is a devastating illness that ruins lives, relationships, finances and can lead to death in either the manic phase or the depressed phase. This is too complicated to go into here, but I would suggest to anyone who thinks they might know someone who suffers from this to read up on it.
If you have ever wondered if someone you know is bi-polar.....then they probably are.
But you know what? In spite of these devastating disorders, God is good medicine.
There have been so many people that have lost their lives because they could not deal with the pain of mental illness, but staying close to Jesus, living for Him AS WELL AS medication/therapy can make one's life tolerable and sometimes even enjoyable.
I know this is off-topic and applies to a different thread, but most of the homeless people you see are indeed drug addicts and homeless due to undiagnosed mental illness, or have just been turned away due to their mental illness. Very sad.
It's been suggested that Jesus was Depressed in the garden on the night that He was to be taken to be tried.
That is flat wrong. There is no way that the Lord Jesus Christ who is a perfected being, filled with the Holy Spirit, and wielded the power of God fell pray to a disease of depression. His mind and heart were clear, He knew and understood exactly what was going to happen and why.
The event of Jesus in Gethsemane has been falsely interpretted by some, to be a weak, human failing type of experience of Jesus. That could not be farther from the truth.
Jesus experienced taking on the sins of all mankind, His sorrow was never for himself, it was a heartbreaking event to Him based on His compassion and passion for man and His sorrow was towards us, that we live so much lower and weaker than we can. That we let sin overcome us, rather than us overcoming sin.
Sorrow is based in Love, Depression is based in disease.
Jesus had no dis-eases, if He did then He would not have been the perfect sacrafice that He IS.
It's been suggested that Jesus was Depressed in the garden on the night that He was to be taken to be tried.
That is flat wrong. There is no way that the Lord Jesus Christ who is a perfected being, filled with the Holy Spirit, and wielded the power of God fell pray to a disease of depression. His mind and heart were clear, He knew and understood exactly what was going to happen and why.
The event of Jesus in Gethsemane has been falsely interpretted by some, to be a weak, human failing type of experience of Jesus. That could not be farther from the truth.
Jesus experienced taking on the sins of all mankind, His sorrow was never for himself, it was a heartbreaking event to Him based on His compassion and passion for man and His sorrow was towards us, that we live so much lower and weaker than we can. That we let sin overcome us, rather than us overcoming sin.
Sorrow is based in Love, Depression is based in disease.
Jesus had no dis-eases, if He did then He would not have been the perfect sacrafice that He IS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207
I am speaking only to you, PG77. I have no desire to debate with anyone on this subject. I am just going to share various versions of Matthew 26:36-38, I pray that you get your answer on if a Christian can be depressed.
NIV-Then Jesus went with his disciples to a place called Gethsemane, and he said to them, "Sit here while I go over there and pray." He took Peter and the two sons of Zebedee along with him, and he began to be sorrowful and troubled. Then he said to them, "My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me."
KJV-Then cometh Jesus with them unto a place called Gethsemane, and saith unto the disciples, Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder. And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be sorrowful and very heavy. Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.
NASB-Then Jesus came with them to a place called Gethsemane, and said to His disciples, "Sit here while I go over there and pray." And He took with Him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be grieved and distressed. Then He said to them, "My soul is deeply grieved, to the point of death; remain here and keep watch with Me."
AMPLIFIED-Then Jesus went with them to a place called Gethsemane, and He told His disciples, Sit down here while I go over yonder and pray. And taking with Him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, He began to show grief and distress of mind and was deeply depressed. Then He said to them, My soul is very sad and deeply grieved, so that I am almost dying of sorrow. Stay here and keep awake and keep watch with Me.
THE MESSAGE-Then Jesus went with them to a garden called Gethsemane and told his disciples, "Stay here while I go over there and pray." Taking along Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, he plunged into an agonizing sorrow. Then he said, "This sorrow is crushing my life out. Stay here and keep vigil with me."
YOUNG'S LITERAL-Then come with them doth Jesus to a place called Gethsemane, and he saith to the disciples, `Sit ye here, till having gone away, I shall pray yonder.' And having taken Peter, and the two sons of Zebedee, he began to be sorrowful, and to be very heavy; then saith he to them, `Exceedingly sorrowful is my soul -- unto death; abide ye here, and watch with me.'
I hope you see the consistent message.
I pray you do.
Jesus never sinned. He did rely on the Father. Follow Him.
Hi Freedom,
I understand your need to believe that Jesus didn't feel these things because he was perfect, but we have to remember that He was every bit a human being just like us.
Of course He had these feelings. He was sad and depressed because His fleshly body knew the pain and anguish He was about to suffer, not to mention the betrayal. I can't even imagine what He felt, and I don't think any one of us can.
I think the point that Alpha was trying to make to the OP is that even Jesus suffered these feelings, and that PG77 will overcome them through Jesus Christ just like Jesus Himself overcame them.
Hi Freedom,
I understand your need to believe that Jesus didn't feel these things because he was perfect, but we have to remember that He was every bit a human being just like us.
Of course He had these feelings. He was sad and depressed because His fleshly body knew the pain and anguish He was about to suffer, not to mention the betrayal. I can't even imagine what He felt, and I don't think any one of us can.
I think the point that Alpha was trying to make to the OP is that even Jesus suffered these feelings, and that PG77 will overcome them through Jesus Christ just like Jesus Himself overcame them.
Jesus could come and go as the wind, could endure months of fasting, could walk through matter, heal all manner of illness, multiply elements, speak with God the Father, read thoughts, He is a transfigured being. He could control the weather, raise the dead.
Do you for one second think that He didn't know exactly why He was born, and what He prepared for over 30 yrs. to do?
Man projects his weak interpretations on the Son of God, and thinks that is the way it is.
Jesus wanted the closest disciples to experience the intense grief for mankind, that it would make them better sons.
There is no selfishness in Perfection. If Jesus did and acted as is being portrayed by some in this thread, then He was not perfect, and He IS perfect.
Jesus could come and go as the wind, could endure months of fasting, could walk through matter, heal all manner of illness, multiply elements, speak with God the Father, read thoughts, He is a transfigured being. He could control the weather, raise the dead.
Do you for one second think that He didn't know exactly why He was born, and what He prepared for over 30 yrs. to do?
Man projects his weak interpretations on the Son of God, and thinks that is the way it is.
Jesus wanted the closest disciples to experience the intense grief for mankind, that it would make them better sons.
There is no selfishness in Perfection. If Jesus did and acted as is being portrayed by some in this thread, then He was not perfect, and He IS perfect.
So man, once again... must be wrong.
godspeed,
freedom
I don't believe one person who has responded to the OP thinks that Jesus is not perfect now or then. And anyone who knows Jesus as their Savior is aware that He was very much aware of why He was here. I can see from your other posts that you think we can also achieve perfection, and I don't agree with that. Not in this lifetime.
Having human emotions are something totally different than perfection. Feeling those emotions did not mean it affected Jesus' perfection.
So I just think you are missing the point of this thread. It's not about the perfection of Jesus. It's about encouraging another fellow Christian through Jesus Christ. Don't let your own personal beliefs get in the way of that.
I don't believe one person who has responded to the OP thinks that Jesus is not perfect now or then. And anyone who knows Jesus as their Savior is aware that He was very much aware of why He was here. I can see from your other posts that you think we can also achieve perfection, and I don't agree with that. Not in this lifetime.
Dispair also known as Depression comes from iniquity, or in other words SIN.
Jesus never sinned, nor was ever in dispair, nor depressed.
It's not me saying we are to, or can become perfect, it is God. There are too many verses to list here. There are over 49 verses that teach perfection, perfect, and perfected in the NT scriptures. Unbelief is a sure way to not reach it.
Quote:
Having human emotions are something totally different than perfection. Feeling those emotions did not mean it affected Jesus' perfection.
Emotions are the seeds of thought and action. We surely can sin with our thoughts. It is described in Matthew very clearly how our thoughts and emotions are equal to actions.
Quote:
So I just think you are missing the point of this thread. It's not about the perfection of Jesus. It's about encouraging another fellow Christian through Jesus Christ. Don't let your own personal beliefs get in the way of that.
The direction this thread has taken, is to make perfection, imperfect, and i find that sad.
Did I not say below there is a difference between sorrow and depression?
Jesus had sorrow because he knew he was going to be seperated from the Father in order to take on the sins of all of mankind. The Father could not remain in the Son while all of sin was upon him.
Mat 27:46And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
The OP asked for thoughts, so because I have different thoughts then the rest of you I cannot share them? If that is so, please make it clear.
We all have different gifts and abilities, but if we are'nt free to use them in the "body" then they are of no use.
Dispair also known as Depression comes from iniquity, or in other words SIN.
Jesus never sinned, nor was ever in dispair, nor depressed.
It's not me saying we are to, or can become perfect, it is God. There are too many verses to list here. There are over 49 verses that teach perfection, perfect, and perfected in the NT scriptures. Unbelief is a sure way to not reach it.
Freedom,
While I agree with you whole heartedly that Jesus was, is and will always be perfect, I must disagree with you in the position that you are taking here.
I disagree in that Jesus could not have experienced depression. In fact scripture tells us that we are able to overcome everything because of Jesus and His gaining the victory over it all. He came and He was both God and Man. He was subjected to the very same temptations and understands all our struggles and thus is our ever present help in times of need.
Hebrews 4:15 tells us that we do not serve a high priest who doesn't understand our struggles, our weaknesses. It tells us that he was tempted in all areas and yet remained without sin.
Matthew 8:17 tells us that Jesus took on our infirmities and bore our sickness. Thus it is through him that we are healed.
1 Peter 2:24 tells us that Jesus bore all of our sins, all of our transgressions enabling us to die to these things, it is thus by his stripes, by his wounds that we are healed of all these things.
In Matthew 26:38 it says that Jesus told His diciples that He was "exceedingly sorrowful, even to death"... this is knowing full well what was to come, what had to happen, being perfect and willing to do what God had sent Him to do, nevertheless, his human (Man) side felt that exceeding sorrow as the time approached. He also petitioned to our Father in Heaven that if the cup could be taken from Him for it to be so, but you are right, he never sinned, he also told our Father in Heaven, nevertheless your will be done, not mine.
Jesus was led into every temptation and overcame, thus we too can overcome them as well through Him. Likewise we too find ourselves facing temptations, these struggles. But 1 Corinthians 10:13 says that we are not overtaken by any but those comman to man and God is faithful to not tempt us beyond what we can bear and even in our temptations, he provides the way out.
It is not being tempted to depression that is a sin, it is not even experiencing the effects of that depression that is sin. What we do with it is what can make the difference. Jesus relied on God for His strength and for the victory. We too must do the same.
I believe that every human emotion and even illness that is experienced today, Jesus experienced and thus because of that our hope remains in Him for we can be assured that we too can obtain victory over it, just as He did.
This is why we walk by faith and not by sight or by our emotions and because we have our advocate in Heaven, we can come boldly before His throne and receive the mercy and the grace that we so desperately need when we are struggling with something.
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Depression for some is a way of life
