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Tell why people would be examples to us if we can't obey anyway...think about it...they died in the desert for not obeying and are examples to us...so if they can't obey and we can't obey, how can they be examples?
Its a evasive question, no need. Men by nature, are carnal, having not the Spirit. Hence the carnal mind is enmity against God and cant obey God Rom 8:7
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Remember, Pelagianism was condemned by the Church as heresy and truth does not change. They consider any who embraces Pelagianism as a heretic, no matter how much scripture they use to disguise themselves.
A lot of things were condemned as heresy but the minds that condemned them were like those depicted by Frederic March as Mathew Brady in the movie "Inherit the Wind." Why on heart would you trust their interpretations of what is and is not heresy????
"When the Church heard the Incarnate Word of God and committed His Word to writing, she thereby participated with God in giving birth to the written Word, the New Testament. Thus it was the Church which gave birth to and preceded the New Testament."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesus'Truth
No such thing as a church before Jesus died and rose and ascended and sent the Holy Spirit.
Do you want to believe God in His preserved written words or your teachers?
If you can't believe an Orthodox priest, when he tells you something, who can you believe?
However, I believe the text of the Bible --- In the beginning was God and the Word was with God.
And God has a Church, His Church are the people, whom He created. It's either that of Isaiah made all that up, all by himself on the coming Messiah.
ps: that also takes us back to the point of this thread --- freewill. If man has freewill, then he made all that up all by himself and the inspiration of the Holy Spirit had nothing to do with the Word.
That doesn't mean that a person can't respond to the gospel message by making a decision to believe in Christ.
No person has that ability. Without God, our will is only free to choose things in the realm of darkness; this is why Paul speaks of being dead in trespasses and sins: we can't choose anything but trespasses and sins.
But then comes the Gospel, and its power enables us to do one thing only: stop fighting, stop being a rebel against God, surrender. It isn't a matter of doing, it's a matter of stop doing, to stop trying to be our own god and let go of all actions of the will, to let go and just be. And in that surrender our barriers come down, the Holy Spirit steps across the border and ignites life in us that for the first time is able to desire something other than evil.
In that moment we are capable of recognizing the truth: we are empty! There is nothing in us worthy of giving to Him, nothing worthy of His attention. We are like broken, rusty cans, empty and incapable of holding anything though we ever strive to grasp and hold things! So our action is to cease action -- to cease grasping, cease striving, cease everything, to just let go and merely be what we are, to be a rusty, broken can.
You know no one could get in the body of Christ in the old testament and there was no talk about church.
The Old Testament Church is called the Congregation of the Lord over 300 times. “This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:” Acts 7:38 (KJV 1900)
The Old Testament Church is called the Congregation of the Lord over 300 times. “This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:” Acts 7:38 (KJV 1900)
That scripture is speaking about how Jesus is God and the prophesied one to come.
Jesus' body is the church along with the washed and saved and it was a mystery in the Old Testament and there was no way yet to get so reconciled to God until Jesus came and died for us, raised himself, ascended to heaven and sent the Holy Spirit so that we can be in him and him in us.
I know you were taught differently, but hope you consider more carefully what I am saying the scriptures say.
Jesus says he will build his church.
That didn't happen until the New Testament.
Matthew 16:18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.
Ephesians 2:20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone.
That scripture is speaking about how Jesus is God and the prophesied one to come.
Jesus' body is the church along with the washed and saved and it was a mystery in the Old Testament and there was no way yet to get so reconciled to God until Jesus came and died for us, raised himself, ascended to heaven and sent the Holy Spirit so that we can be in him and him in us.
I know you were taught differently, but hope you consider more carefully what I am saying the scriptures say.
Jesus says he will build his church.
That didn't happen until the New Testament.
Matthew 16:18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.
Ephesians 2:20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone.
But, the OT mentions the Congregation of the Lord (Church) over 300 times.
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