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Not relevant, God imprisoned both jews and gentiles in unbelief/disobedience
Of course it is relevant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brightfame52
God didnt allow anything that He didnt already purpose, the jews diobeying was the Lords doing Matt 21:42
God hardened many of the Jews.
If they can't believe and obey before they are saved then what is God hardening them for?
You need to keep that in mind.
In addition, some of those Jews who were hardened, they helped Jesus to get crucified, and then later, they repented of it and were saved.
That truth proves your Calvinistic beliefs false in more than one way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brightfame52
Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
Jews as well as Gentiles God has appointed to disobedience 1 Pet 2:8
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
Its not just jews who stumble at the Gospel
Again, many of the Jews were cut off and hardened.
Ask yourself why were they cut off and bound to disobedience, unbelief, if they weren't able to believe and obey until saved first? If you say because they were already saved, then why would God stop them from believing and obeying? We know that many Jews that were cut off and hardened were saved later. Think about it some more. Something amazing can happen to you if you can humble yourself and repent for the false beliefs. Just think of what all Paul gave up for the truth. Paul was a pharisee and and went to college and calls it all dung after knowing the truth.
Man is in the prison of disobedience Rom 11:32 and his nature is one of disobdience eph 2:2
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Man by nature is carnal and his mind is enmity against God cannot be subject to God Rom 8:7
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
That word subject in the original means hypotassō :
to arrange under, to subordinate
to subject, put in subjection
to subject one's self, obey
to submit to one's control
to yield to one's admonition or advice
to obey, be subject
There you have it, man with our carnal mind cannot obey God.
You are trying to make the scriptures support your false beliefs.
I had to humble myself too for Jesus to save me and give me understanding.
I gave up the denomination of my family, the Catholic denomination with its beautiful churches and all the art and pomp. I spent many years of my life in church and catechism classes and baptism, first holy communion, confession, confirmation, etc. It was a big deal to family to leave the Catholic church.
Then when I got involved in the Mormon denomination, they were like even better than my family to me. However, when different people were telling me to repent of it, I could have gotten defensive and told them to mind their own business and who do they think they are, for I knew they weren't outstanding people in the Lord and what was it to them what I believed? I kept humble and kind though, and so glad I did, for it is what Jesus says to do to enter.
I hope you will consider carefully what the Bible says and keep listening to what I am saying.
You are trying to make the scriptures support your false beliefs.
I had to humble myself too for Jesus to save me and give me understanding.
I gave up the denomination of my family, the Catholic denomination with its beautiful churches and all the art and pomp. I spent many years of my life in church and catechism classes and baptism, first holy communion, confession, confirmation, etc. It was a big deal to family to leave the Catholic church.
Then when I got involved in the Mormon denomination, they were like even better than my family to me. However, when different people were telling me to repent of it, I could have gotten defensive and told them to mind their own business and who do they think they are, for I knew they weren't outstanding people in the Lord and what was it to them what I believed? I kept humble and kind though, and so glad I did, for it is what Jesus says to do to enter.
I hope you will consider carefully what the Bible says and keep listening to what I am saying.
There you have it. Man naturally has a carnal mind which is enmity against God, and cant be subject to God, which means cant submit, or obey God.
There you have it. Man naturally has a carnal mind which is enmity against God, and cant be subject to God, which means cant submit, or obey God.
Why would you say there you have it after I said I obeyed Jesus and kept humble? You aren't even humble and claim to be saved. I knew I wasn't saved yet and had to keep humble because Jesus said to do that. No one can enter unless they are humble.
That disproves your ridiculously false going against God doctrine from Calvin.
No one can enter unless they humble themselves.
You say no one can believe and obey unless they were saved first.
Jesus says no you must obey and humble yourself to enter.
Why would you say there you have it after I said I obeyed Jesus and kept humble?
I dont judge truth by you and your experiences, or anyone's for that matter, but by the word of truth. The truth is, the carnal mind is enmity against God, and isnt subject to the law of God, and therfore not subject to God, and cant be. The word subject Rom 8:7
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
It means :
to arrange under, to subordinate
to subject, put in subjection
to subject one's self, obey
to submit to one's control
to yield to one's admonition or advice
to obey, be subject
So there, the carnal mind cant obey God. It doesnt matter to me if you say it can obey God, who do I believe between you and the word of God ?
I dont judge truth by you and your experiences, or anyone's for that matter, but by the word of truth.
No you do not.
If you think you do then you have fooled yourself, because there is no scripture anywhere that says what you say.
1. Give the scripture that says no one can believe and obey God.
2. Give the scripture that says God saves unbelievers.
Don't give scriptures you think says it.
Give scriptures that say those things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brightfame52
The truth is, the carnal mind is enmity against God, and isnt subject to the law of God, and therfore not subject to God, and cant be. The word subject Rom 8:7
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
It means :
to arrange under, to subordinate
to subject, put in subjection
to subject one's self, obey
to submit to one's control
to yield to one's admonition or advice
to obey, be subject
So there, the carnal mind cant obey God. It doesnt matter to me if you say it can obey God, who do I believe between you and the word of God ?
The carnal mind is about a mind only interested in pleasing the flesh with sin.
Posting wha another person said ecplaining freewill he had logic !
Curtis said:
Angels have the ability to choose, but they were not given the right to choose. This is why there is no salvation for angels.
Humans have the ability to choose and were given the right to choose.
Twistie replies:
I see it as the the angels also had free will free to choose YH or free to choose their own path n I believe there's no repentance for them for they were in YHs glorious presence when they went astray
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