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My dear girl, you are likely qualified to tell us what passages of Canon are "most important", but being the Birdbrain I am makes it necessary to search the entire Canon for what the prophets of the Glorious One have declared regarding the restoration of all things from the earliest ages. You do believe the Bible is one continuous theme don't you?
Quote:
John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 14:6 I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
"Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." John 3:3
John 10:27-28 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand....
Rev.21:6-8 And He said to me, "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirst. He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.
Micah 4:5
For all people walk each in the name of his god, but we will walk in the name of the Lord our God forever and ever!
Evidently the apostle St. Paul was unaware of the "most important" aspects of the Good News announced by angels and the Son of the Highest. Do you really think so, Curly? And most certainly the apostle St. John was completely discombobulated when he declared under the unction...
Quote:
The leaves of the Tree of Life are for the healing of the nations. And there shall no longer be a curse upon anything.
Yes, Curly, no more curse upon anything....no more anathema upon anything....no more, no more, no more!
Number of times the Apostle Paul speaks of hell? (Eternal or otherwise)
Thirteen Epistles: References to hell= 0
Number of times the Apostle Luke mentions hell?
Twice in Acts (both in reference to Jesus Christ not being left in hell)
Quote:
Because You will not leave my soul in hell/hades, neither will You suffer Your Holy One to suffer corruption. Acts 2:27
Please Note
Hell/hades and corruption are linked.
Quote:
...He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that He had not been abondoned to the place of death (hades), neither did His flesh undergo decay.
Number of times St. John refers to hell in his Gospel=
Zero (0)
Quote:
Death and hell were cast into the Lake of Theos/Pur.
And he showed me a pure river of life, clear as crystal, proceeding for the throne of God and of the Lamb. In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding it fruit every month. These leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him. They shall see His face, and His name shall be on their foreheads. There shall be no night there: They need no lamp nor light of the sun, for the Lord God gives them light. And they shall reign forever and ever.
Then he said to me, "These words are faithful and true." And the Lord God of the holy prophets sent His angels to show His servants the things which must shortly take place.
"Behold, I am coming quickly! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book."
Now I, John, saw and heard these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel who showed me these things.
Then he said to me, "See that you do not do that. For I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren the prophets, and of those who keep the words of this book. Worship God."
And he said to me, "Do not seal the word of the prophecy of this book, for the time is at hand. He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still."
" And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every one according to his work. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last." Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates in the city. But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie. " I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star."
And the Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely. "For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. He who testifies to these things says, "Surely I am coming quickly."
Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus! The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
********************************** Rev.21:6-8 And He said to me, "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirst. He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.
************************************
... nothing about eventual restoration for all..... but there sure are some warnings about those who add and take from the word of God...
Maybe some may rethink their position....
It's an awful and dreadful thing to be in the hands of God's wrath with teaching false doctrine....
Last edited by Cyber Munchkin; 04-04-2009 at 09:39 AM..
And he showed me a pure river of life, clear as crystal, proceeding for the throne of God and of the Lamb. In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding it fruit every month. These leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him. They shall see His face, and His name shall be on their foreheads. There shall be no night there: They need no lamp nor light of the sun, for the Lord God gives them light. And they shall reign forever and ever.
... nothing about eventual restoration for all..... but there sure are some warnings about those who add and take from the word of God...
Maybe some may rethink their position....
It's an awful thing to be in the hands of God's wrath with teaching false doctrine....
Can you say "no more curse/ no more anathema? Where is Lover of N.C. when you need her? She loves "eternal hell", but alas, there shall be no longer a curse upon anything!
There are those referred to as "first-fruits"....they are the "they" spoken of by St. Paul in reference to deliverance in Romans 8. But first-fruits are not the whole harvest which are the "they"....both "they" and "us" "shall be delivered."
And then there are the words in Timothy regarding our God being the Saviour of all mankind. But wait, He is not only the Saviour of all mankind, He is the Saviour "especially" of those who place their trust in Him. Yes, the especially, and in particular the overcomer, referred to in a number of places in the Revelation "shall reign with Him." It is evident from those passages that not all of the church are overcomers...quite evident indeed! In Sardis there are a "few" who have not defiled their garments, and Laodicea conducts business as usual while the Son of God stands outside the meeting knocking.
he who overcomes shall inherit all things, and i will be his god and he shall be my son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.
Ah, brimstone, the primary essence of the Lake. Do you know what brimstone is in the Old Testament? Correct, the "breath of Jehovah" or gophriyth. And in the New Covenant brimstone is theion which is "Divine incense" rooted both in theios and the foundation, Theos, yes the Lake of Theos/Pur.
Psalm 7:11; "God judgeth the righteous and God is angry with the wicked every day." So it reads in the common version, but so it ought not to read.
The correct reading is just the opposite, viz., "God is a righteous judge and He is not angry always." So, Young renders it, so also the Vulgate, Septuagint an Syriac. The original word for "God" is very similar to the word for "not." "El" means God; "al" means not; in the original there is not so much difference as in the English, as the vowels are very nearly alike. Doubtless these two words became confused and thus the error occurred; the corrected rendering agrees perfectly with such passages as Psa. 103:8,9; Isa. 57:16; Mic. 7:18,19. -A.P.Adams
Our Fathers anger is but for a moment, and linked with it is life!
"For his anger endureth but a moment; in his favour is life: weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning."
Quote:
Hath God forgotten to be gracious? Has he in anger shut up his tender mercies?
Our Father's anger is linked with his gracious Being & his anger is linked with his tender mercies.
It is interesting to note the Koine for wrath is orge. And orge is rooted in oregamai.
Oregamai=
To stretch one's self out in order to touch or to grasp something, to reach after or desire something.
... nothing about eventual restoration for all..... but there sure are some warnings about those who add and take from the word of God...
Maybe some may rethink their position....
It's an awful thing to be in the hands of God's wrath with teaching false doctrine....
I won't "rethink my position" because I trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, especially of those that believe, thank you.
What is the earnest expectation of the creature? We are all waiting for the manifestation of the sons of God! Does the Church today even care what they are to become, or are they just waiting for a freakin' rapture so that they can pick out their "mansion"? The plan of God is so far above what we project in our lives today. Do we have any concept what "Firstfruits" are? We must be - we will be - conformed into His image in order to bring forth fruit!
What kind of fruit?
(1)His will by some to bless and save others; by a first-born seed, “the first born from the dead,” (Col. 1:18.) to save and bless the later-born:
(2) His will therefore to work out the redemption of the lost by successive ages or dispensations - or, to use the language of St. Paul , “according to the purpose of the ages:” (Eph. 3:11.) — and
(3) Lastly, His will (thus meeting the nature of our fall,) to make death, judgment, and destruction, the means and way to life, acquittal, and salvation; in other words, “through death to destroy him that has the power of death, that is the devil, and to deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.” (Heb. 2:14.)
What do you think the purpose of fruit is in your life? To make you more "qualified to go to heaven"?
It's not about you!
Quote:
Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him. (Eph 1:9-10)
Check it out: you must begin with GOD when inquiring of these things, who has revealed as to His end in making man, and how far, if at all, His purpose in creation is or has been frustrated in any way. Did the entrance of sin change or affect God's plan? Christ is the answer!
Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ.
Mercy, peace, and love be multiplied to you.
Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.
For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.
But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as example, suffering the vengeances of eternal fire.
Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of dignitaries. Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!"
But these speak evil of whatever they do not know; and whatever they
know naturally, like brute beasts, in these things they corrupt themselves.
Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, have run greedily in the error of Balaam for profit, and perished in the rebellion of Korah.
These are spots in your love feast, while they feast with you without fear, serving only themselves. They are clouds without water, carried about by the winds; late autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, pulled up by the roots; raging waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.
Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, "Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.
These are grumblers, complainers, walking according to their own lusts; and they mouth great swelling word, flattering people to gain advantage. But you, beloved, remember the words which were spoken before by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ: how they told you that there would be mockers in the last time who would walk according to their own ungodly lusts. These are sensual persons, who cause divisions, not having the Spirit.
But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
And on some have compassion, making a distinction; but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garment defiled by the flesh.
Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to present you faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy, to God our Savior, who alone is wise, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and forever. Amen
God is our CREATOR. We have this idea that God formed a man, put him on earth, gave him a few rules and HOPED that of his own free will, His creation would love his creator. But think about it. He CREATED us. Every inch of us.
We look at a baby, it takes much education, constant guidance, to teach this person through its formative years right and wrong. But as parents, though we do the best we can, we had no input into what this child's actual brain works like. Whether everything works the way it's supposed to. Sometimes we put wrong information into it, can damage certain functions if we mishandle the child, but we really didn't have much to do with the way his/her brain functions. But a CREATOR does have much to do with how the brain is formed.
A child comes into the world with brain damage. It will never be able to learn or understand the way 'normal' people do. We say, well God makes allowances for him. He is not responsible for his choices. He will 'go to heaven'. But why? And what will be his state 'in heaven?' Why, he will be changed we say automatically. So then he got a free ticket, just by some accident of birth? He will have all the right rules and love just programed into his new brain? He didn't have to go through the process we do? Does this make sense? Or will he be given the power to see the way things really are, in the ressurection, in an age where God really reigns on earth through his firstfruits and can make the right choices based on the right information which can be processed correctly because at this point all is working correctly?
Then you have your murderers, psychopaths. There is obviously something wrong with them. He does not perceive life or morals or have a conscious such as 'normal' people do. But who allowed or caused this to happen? I say it surely was not any more the fault of that person than the child who was born very mentally incompetent. And if God can change the brain of someone originally born incapable of perceiving right from wrong, how can he not change the perception of one who by one reason or another became what to us seems a monster?
What about those who do try to do the right thing, but even with their best efforts, fail to live completely righteously. Are they to just be resurrected with perfect brains? Perfect motives of the heart? It is my belief that there will be many ages following these ages where instead of being at the mercy of problems created by birth and life experiences where God will rehabilitate each and every one of us. He has ages upon ages to perfect us.
When Yeshua appeared to Thomas after Thomas declared he would not beliieve Christ had risen until he saw him and touched his wounds, he did not condemn Thomas for reserving belief. Did he say---oh ye of little faith, anyone who does not believe in me before they die physically, before the judgment, without seeing me will rot in hell? hmmmm, doesn't say that in my Bible. He said that those who believed without seeing would experience a special kind of blessing. But no condemnation to those who wouldn't believe until they saw him....and most people ever born will not have laid eyes on him until after death. The Bible DOES say, after death comes judgment. But how do we come to the conclusion that judgment means either heaven or hell? By the way a few other passages are translated. Yet Paul says that everyone is to be made alive in Christ in THE SAME WAY that everyone experiences death through ADAM. And the death wasn't given us as a choice, it was assigned to us. So if you can see that this judgment after death is a judgment to make right what we have done so wrong, or perhaps what was done wrong to us, for EVERYONE, the one who was born incapable of making any choices, or those who made wrong choices based on faulty information and faulty ways of processing that information, then we can see that both those passages are true, even the ones who say that there is a wealth of tears and gnashing of teeth for many who didn't trust in the Father in this life.
He says He makes all things new. Well, some of us are going to need a whole lot of things made new. And what a glorious day that will be.
Many scholars of Hebrew and Greek, quoted on this forum, have given good reasons to doubt the translations that give us eternal as a meaning for a word in certain circumstances when this same word is translated age, world, before time, etc in other passages because there is no way that eternity would make sense in those. How could a good and loving God condemn anyone to an eternity of suffering or even non=existence for a few years of choosing badly?
I ask you to think. Would a creator blame His own creation for any failures? Who is ultimately responsible for any failures of someone's creation? Think about it long and hard. I know it sounds like blasphemy of the worst kind, but on any level, the creation can not achieve anything that the creator has not created it to achieve. Humans can fail, oh yes, we are imperfect so we could hardly create perfection. But a perfect God? How could He fail to create what He meant to create?
Oh, there is accountability since most of us were born with the capacity to know right from wrong, if the creator designed it that way, but ultimately the Creator is responsible for what He created. I state that our Father made no mistakes, that the whole Creation will eventually become what He originally set out to create. He sent His son to guarantee that. He HOPES for nothing. For He sees the end from the beginning. And what you know is not hope, it is certain.
Last edited by ScarletWren; 04-04-2009 at 01:34 PM..
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... nothing about eventual restoration for all..... but there sure are some warnings about those who add and take from the word of God...
