The Truth About Hell (devil, judgement, eternal, Hebrew)
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Will you not require a lifeline? We have an operator standing by from A.T. & T.
1. What does "prov aijwvnioß (aionios) crovnoß" mean?
Prov= Before
aijwvnioß= Everlasting/Eternal/Without beginning or ending?
crovnoß= Began/ Chronology/ Time
That is not how that translates. Sorry. You are using no transliteration and being "literal" word for word. You can't do that and expect to be accurate to the true meaning.
Perhaps you are amused with the word of God and don't take it seriously, but I do.
Again, after that last post I really don't have a wish to continue on with you but thanks for letting me spread some "light" to others.
[b][color=red]-Christ Triumphant by Rev. Thomas Allin-
I missed that last post.
For the casual reader, the Reverend Thomas Allin was not a scholar. He is a "Universalist" apologist attempting to rewrite scriptural meanings to fit his own view.
His (and other universalist)views are generally not accepted by the theological community as a whole as accurate.
"Shall be punished (dikhn tisousin). The verb (N.T.o .) means to pay or render. Lit. shall pay penalty.
Everlasting destruction (oleqron aiwnion). The phrase nowhere else in N.T. In LXX, 4 Macc. x. 15. Rev. properly, eternal destruction. It is to be carefully noted that eternal and everlasting are not synonymous.
Oleqron aijwnion= eternal destruction
Aiwn transliterated eon, is a period of time of longer or shorter duration, having a beginning and an end, and complete in itself. Aristotle (peri oujranou, i. 9, 15) says: "The period which includes the whole time of each one's life is called the eon of each one." Hence it often means the life of a man, as in Homer, where one's life (aiwn) is said to leave him or to consume away (Il. v. 685; Od. v. 160). It is not, however, limited to human life; it signifies any period in the course of events, as the period or age before Christ; the period of the millennium; the mytho-logical period before the beginnings of history.
The word has not "a stationary and mechanical value" (De Quincey).
It does not mean a period of a fixed length for all cases. There are as many eons as entities, the respective durations of which are fixed by the normal conditions of the several entities. There is one eon of a human life, another of the life of a nation, another of a crow's life, another of an oak's life. The length of the eon depends on the subject to which it is attached.
It is sometimes translated world; world representing a period or a series of periods of time. See Matt. xii. 32; xiii. 40, 49; Luke i. 70; 1 Corinthians i. 20; ii. 6; Eph. i. 21. Similarly oiJ aijwnev the worlds, the universe, the aggregate of the ages or periods, and their contents which are included in the duration of the world. 1 Cor. ii. 7; x. 11; Heb. i. 2; ix. 26; xi. 3.
The word always carries the notion of time, and not of eternity.
It always means a period of time. Otherwise it would be impossible to account for the plural, or for such qualifying expressions as this age, or the age to come. It does not mean something endless or everlasting. To deduce that meaning from its relation to ajei is absurd; for, apart from the fact that the meaning of a word is not definitely fixed by its derivation, ajei does not signify endless duration. When the writer of the Pastoral Epistles quotes the saying that the Cretans are always (aei) liars (Tit. i. 12), he surely does not mean that the Cretans will go on Iying to all eternity. See also Acts vii. 51; 2 Cor. iv. 11; vi. 10; Heb. iii. 10; 1. Peter iii. 15. Aei means habitually or continually within the limit of the subject's life. In our colloquial dialect everlastingly is used in the same way. "The boy is everlastingly tormenting me to buy him a drum."
In the New Testament the history of the world is conceived as developed through a succession of eons. A series of such eons precedes the introduction of a new series inaugurated by the Christian dispensation, and the end of the world and the second coming of Christ are to mark the beginning of another series. See Eph. iii. 11. Paul contemplates eons before and after the Christian era. Eph. i. 21; ii. 7; iii. 9, 21; 1 Corinthians x. 11; comp. Heb. ix. 26. He includes the series of eons in one great eon, oJ aijwn twn aijwnwn the eon of the eons (Eph. iii. 21); and the author of the Epistle to the Hebrews describes the throne of God as enduring unto the eon of the eons (Heb. i. 8). The plural is also used, eons of the eons, signifying all the successive periods which make up the sum total of the ages collectively. Rom. xvi. 27; Gal. i. 5; Philip. iv. 20, etc.
This plural phrase is applied by Paul to God only. The adjective aijwniov in like manner carries the idea of time. Neither the noun nor the adjective, in themselves, carry the sense of endless or everlasting.
They may acquire that sense by their connotation, as, on the other hand, ajidiov, which means everlasting, has its meaning limited to a given point of time in Jude 6. Aiwniov means enduring through or pertaining to a period of time. Both the noun and the adjective are applied to limited periods. Thus the phrase eijv ton aijwna, habitually rendered forever, is often used of duration which is limited in the very nature of the case. See, for a few out of many instances, LXX, Exod. xxi. 6; xxix. 9; xxxii. 13; Josh. xiv. 9; 1 Sam. viii. 13; Lev. xxv. 46; Deut. xv. 17; 1 Chronicles xxviii. 4. See also Matt. xxi. 19; John xiii. 8; 1 Cor. viii. 13. The same is true of aijwniov. Out of 150 instances in LXX, four-fifths imply limited duration. For a few instances see Gen. xlviii. 4; Numbers x. 8; xv. 15; Prov. xxii. 28; Jon. ii. 6; Hab. iii. 6; Isa. lxi. 17.
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Words which are habitually applied to things temporal or material can not carry in themselves the sense of endlessness. Even when applied to God, we are not forced to render aijwniov everlasting. Of course the life of God is endless; but the question is whether, in describing God as aijwniov,. it was intended to describe the duration of his being, or whether some different and larger idea was not contemplated.
That God lives longer than men, and lives on everlastingly, and has lived everlastingly, are, no doubt, great and significant facts; yet they are not the dominant or the most impressive facts in God's relations to time. God's eternity does not stand merely or chiefly for a scale of length. It is not primarily a mathematical but a moral fact. The relations of God to time include and imply far more than the bare fact of endless continuance. They carry with them the fact that God transcends time; works on different principles and on a vaster scale than the wisdom of time provides; oversteps the conditions and the motives of time; marshals the successive eons from a point outside of time, on lines which run out into his own measureless cycles, and for sublime moral ends which the creature of threescore and ten years cannot grasp and does not even suspect.
There is a word for everlasting if that idea is demanded. That aijwniov occurs rarely in the New Testament and in LXX does not prove that its place was taken by aijwniov. It rather goes to show that less importance was attached to the bare idea of everlastingness than later theological thought has given it. Paul uses the word once, in Rom. i. 20, where he speaks of "the everlasting power and divinity of God." In Rom. xvi. 26 he speaks of the eternal God (tou aiwniou qeou); but that he does not mean the everlasting God is perfectly clear from the context. He has said that "the mystery" has been kept in silence in times eternal (cronoiv aiwnioiv), by which he does not mean everlasting times, but the successive eons which elapsed before Christ was proclaimed. God therefore is described as the God of the eons, the God who pervaded and controlled those periods before the incarnation. To the same effect is the title oJ basileuv twn aijwnwn the King of the eons, applied to God in 1 Timothy i. 17; Apoc. xv. 3; comp. Tob. xiii. 6, 10.
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The phrase pro cronwn aijwniwn before eternal times (2 Tim. i. 9; Tit. i. 2), cannot mean before everlasting times. To say that God bestowed grace on men, or promised them eternal life before endless times, would be absurd. The meaning is of old, as Luke i. 70. The grace and the promise were given in time, but far back in the ages, before the times of reckoning the eons.
Zwh aijwniov eternal life, which occurs 42 times in N.T., but not in LXX, is not endless life, but life pertaining to a certain age or eon, or continuing during that eon. I repeat, life may be endless. The life in union with Christ is endless, but the fact is not expressed by aijwniov.
Kolasiv aijwniov, rendered everlasting punishment (Matt. xxv. 46), is the punishment peculiar to an eon other than that in which Christ is speaking. In some cases zwh aijwniov does not refer specifically to the life beyond time, but rather to the eon or dispensation of Messiah which succeeds the legal dispensation. See Matt. xix. 16; John v. 39. John says that zwh aijwniov is the present possession of those who believe on the Son of God, John iii. 36; v. 24; vi. 47, 64. The Father's commandment is zwh aijwviov, John xii. 50; to know the only true God and Jesus Christ is zwh aijwniov, John xvii. 3.
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Bishop Westcott very justly says, commenting upon the terms used by John to describe life under different aspects: "In considering these phrases it is necessary to premise that in spiritual things we must guard against all conclusions which rest upen the notions of succession and duration.
'Eternal life' is that which St. Paul speaks of as hJ ontwv zwh the life which is life indeed, and hJ zwh tou qeou the life of God. It is not an endless duration of being in time, but being of which time is not a measure. We have indeed no powers to grasp the idea except through forms and images of sense. These must be used, but we must not transfer them as realities to another order."
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Thus, while aijwniov carries the idea of time, though not of endlessness, there belongs to it also, more or less, a sense of quality. Its character is ethical rather than mathematical. The deepest significance of the life beyond time lies, not in endlessness, but in the moral quality of the eon into which the life passes.
It is comparatively unimportant whether or not the rich fool, when his soul was required of him (L. xii. 20), entered upon a state that was endless. The principal, the tremendous fact, as Christ unmistakably puts it, was that, in the new eon, the motives, the aims, the conditions, the successes and awards of time counted for nothing. In time, his barns and their contents were everything; the soul was nothing. In the new life the soul was first and everything, and the barns and storehouses nothing. The bliss of the sanctified does not consist primarily in its endlessness, but in the nobler moral conditions of the new eon, - the years of the holy and eternal God. Duration is a secondary idea. When it enters it enters as an accompaniment and outgrowth of moral conditions.
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In the present passage it is urged that oleqron destruction points to an unchangeable, irremediable, and endless condition. If this be true, if oleqrov is extinction, then the passage teaches the annihilation of the wicked, in which case the adjective aijwniov is superfluous, since extinction is final, and excludes the idea of duration.
Ajpollumi/ apollumi Linked with Renewal
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But oleqrov does not always mean destruction or extinction. Take the kindred verb ajpollumi to destroy, put an end to, or in the middle voice, to be lost, to perish. Peter says, "the world being deluged with water, perished" (ajpolountai 2 Peter iii. 6); but the world did not become extinct, it was renewed.
In Heb. i. 11, 12 quoted from Psalm 102, we read concerning the heavens and the earth as compared with the eternity of God, "they shall perish" (apolountai). But the perishing is only preparatory to change and renewal. "They shall be changed" (allaghsontai). Comp. Isa. li. 6, 16; lxv. 17; lxvi. 22; 2 Pet. iii. 13; Apoc. xxi. 1. Similarly, "the Son of man came to save that which was lost" (apolwlov), Luke xix. 10. Jesus charged his apostles to go to the lost (apolwlota) sheep of the house of Israel, Matt. x. 6, comp. xv. 24. "He that shall lose (apolesh) his life for my sake shall find it," Matt. xvi. 25. Comp. Luke xv. 6, 9, 32.
In this passage the word destruction is qualified. It is "destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his power, " at his second coming, in the new eon. In other words, it is the severance, at a given point of time, of those who obey not the gospel from the presence and the glory of Christ.
Aiwniov may therefore describe this severance as continuing during the millennial eon between Christ's coming and the final judgment; as being for the wicked prolonged throughout that eon and characteristic of it, or it may describe the severance as characterizing or enduring through a period or eon succeeding the final judgment, the extent of which period is not defined.
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In neither case is aijwniov to be interpreted as everlasting or endless.
There is no doubt of the need of a new series of volumes today in
the light of the new knowledge.
I guess eternal doesn't mean eternal, and the scholars that translate the bible should have consulted with Vincent and Allin first. Nice to know every bible ever translated was wrong. You'd think they wouldn't just hire off the street for these type of projects, ya know?
Aionios indeed does not mean eternal, unless you can demonstrate the foundational noun aion holds that meaning.
Greek has a word and an expression that means "eternal", but αιωνιον is not one of them. αιωνιον is an age (singular). The punishment in St. Matthew 25, comes from the word κολαζω which means to prune and is used in a disciplinary/ corrective sense and not a penal one. μωρια would be used in a penal (vengeance) sense.
The Latin Vulgate translated αιωνιον as "aeternus" from which we get the English words eternal and eternity. The KJV translators, instead of going back to the Greek, went to the Latin Vulgate and translated "aeternus". Translating that as "eternal" is based on Latin theology (Roman Catholicism). It was absolutely essential to Augustinian theology with its blightening emphasis on the doctrine of predestinarianism to mistranslate the Greek adjective αιωνιον, and put on it a meaning which the Greek will not for a moment allow in its respective applications to salvation and judgment.
The Greek word for "everlasting" is αιδιοις. Remember, "eternal" means without beginning or end. Only God is eternal. Everlasting means without end. αιωνιον means age, but αιδιοις (plural) means "everlasting" or perpetual. The other way of saying "everlasting" is εις τους αιωνας των αιωνων. One is an adjective that means "everlasting", the other is a noun.
Scripture talks about everlasting life, but when it's talking about "aionian" life, that's not it. St. Matthew 25 is talking about age-lasting life and age-lasting punishment (chastisement/ correction) not correction that goes on and on and on without reaching its purpose & consummation.
Scripture talks about everlasting life, but when it's talking about "aionian" life, that's not it. St. Matthew 25 is talking about age-lasting life and age-lasting punishment (chastisement/ correction) not correction that goes on and on and on without reaching its purpose & consummation.
There are scriptures relating to correction or chastisement we need to go through in this life... but I have not found any scriptures indicating that we will be corrected after death. Do you have some scripture for this?
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"Yes I believe hell is a real place and I believe it is eternal and I believe the only way to Heaven is through Jesus.
Matthew 25:41 "Then the King will turn to those on the left and say away with you, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his demons".
John 14:6 "Jesus told him, I am the way, the truth, and life, no one can come to the Father except through Me".
If you are going to teach others that there is no hell - you better be sure what you're teaching is right. Teachers will be judged for what they teach...
James 3
Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.
I appreciate your concern, however, a simple word study about how 'hell', 'the grave' and 'the pit' are all translated from the same Hebrew word is an easy study. The fact that 'Gaheena' is a totally different word and is never mentioned to the gentiles even once and only mentioned once by any apostle (James regarding the tongue) is also an easy study, and indisputable.
Most translations now render these words properly, but since those which did not are wildly popular the 'hell' myth continues to dominate Christian culture. I understand that there are other debatable terms that to some mean the same thing like 'death', 'damnation', 'destruction', 'outer darkness' etc, and that's fine, but this slapping the 'h' word on everything that has to do with judgment and then making it eternal is an easily exposed error and I can assure you that God is not going to jump all over my case for pointing that out.
blessings,
- Byron
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