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"Those who call upon the name of the Lord will be saved"
These verses need to be looked at in the context intended, The word "Salvation" in the Greek , has the exact meaning in every verse in new testament scripture....the word salvation in the text "Those who call upon the Lord will be saved" needs to be looked at in the context it was given.
I find it hard to nail down the exact sequence of events, but it is rolled into a combination that brings about the initial salvation experience , calling ,confessing ,believing, humility, the Fathers drawing,
" inbirthed Faith " (Be persuaded by God by His in birthing his Faith in us so we can believe, the means or the sequence isn't important to understand...... its the end result that counts .
In a similar way its not what we say, the asking, or the words we use ..... its the lowly humble state of the heart that brings it about, and not without the other aspects I have outlined.
No one scripture stands on its own , otherwise there would be many contradictions in the bible, when we read scripture, we need to pay careful attention to key words when understanding scripture's "Intention Perspective and Context" When we read for example "All the promises of God are yes and amen " we need to read on to the most important part of that verse"......"To those who ARE IN Christ Jesus" ....... the condition that allows scripture to live in our lives ((OBEDIENCE) , you cant properly obey a scripture if you don't understand its context.
Which leads me to the word in question "SAVED , SALVATION" THE GREEK....properly, deliver out of danger and into safety; used principally of God rescuing believers from the penalty and power of sin – and into His provisions (safety). "Saviour" (what is "saved/rescued from destruction and brought into divine safety")
We all agree with the theologians description , because its what the scriptures in its fullness tells us,
The scripture in its context is revealing what happens at initial repentance , we are "Translated from the kingdom of darkness and into His Glorious light" ETC. ETC. ETC. We are saved, or as Paul puts it "We are being saved " and this is what differentiates from initial salvation and growing in Christ with patience .....Paul clarifies this with....... Philippians 3;12 Not that I have ALREADY obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I MAY lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus", and...... 1 Corinthians 9;27[SIZE=2] "[/SIZE]But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified".
All scripture combined supports itself ....that's why when we read the scripture at hand, about "calling and salvation" and come across Matthew 7…21Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. seems contradictory , antil we read ,When asked how to pray , Jesus spoke about His will " in heaven" and His desire to see it be performed on earth. He asked us to pray that, not as something that is, but as something that "will be"
This takes partnership........ our part is to, as Paul reveals, Romans 12;1-2 happens as our lives are on "The alter" so that WE can see what is..... "His Good , acceptable , and perfect will" this is the place of obedience ,and with Endurance we will hear those words....." Well done Thou good and faithful servant" ...This is "salvation" completed in its proper context , Paul spoke of our being saved as a "Long distance race" Jesus spoke of a "straight and narrow path" with hardship ... "Taking up our cross daily"
So when looking at all and any scripture , understand it in the light of all other scripture ... there are no contradictions .... if you hunger and thirst after righteousness .... you WILL be filled.
Could I say at this point I believe the Christian "Teachers" roll has been corrupted , even the way that teachers achieve their credentials is not new testament biblical , its meant "To come from above" not via a test by another human being...... Jesus said "Learn from Me" The teachers roll is to make disciples for Jesus, so they can understand what Jesus meant by His statement , "Learn from Me"
We start off telling people at the beginning of their salvation to have a "Personal relationship with Jesus" and then put our own personal agenda's in their way instead of encouraging them "To abide in the vine"
"The rivers of living water" will never come until we "Believe on Him as the SCRIPTURES have said"
There is no righteousness in reading or studying scripture, only in doing what it says.There is no righteousness in reading or studying scripture, only in doing what it says.
What are you doing with the talents /gifts He has give you...if you hide them you will be terrified when He returns. Get out and bear witness of the one who Saved you, as He leads you.
A Personal revelation that I needed was this ...."its not just what you believe, but what you do with what you believe", all scripture is relevant , scripture doesn't say read me for the sake of something to read, ( Are you praying, giving to God and others, witnessing to others) James; "I will show you my faith by my works"....... if I could paraphrase that from the Greek....... I will show you what God showed me to do and that through obedience with Gods leading and strength I did what HE showed me to do"....... you see the people that said to Jesus....... "Didn't "WE" do ALL these wonderful things in your name" were not practicing "Faith"=
[SIZE=4]THE GREEK Faith ([/SIZE][SIZE=4]pistis[/SIZE][SIZE=4]) is always a [/SIZE][SIZE=4]gift from God[/SIZE][SIZE=4], and [/SIZE][SIZE=4]never [/SIZE][SIZE=4]something that can be produced by people. [/SIZE][SIZE=4]pistis [/SIZE][SIZE=4]("faith") for the believer is "God's [/SIZE][SIZE=4]divine persuasion[/SIZE][SIZE=4]" – and therefore distinct from human belief (confidence), yet INVOLVING it. The Lord continuously [/SIZE][SIZE=4]births faith [/SIZE][SIZE=4]in the YIELDED believer so they can KNOW what He PREFERS, i.e. the [/SIZE][SIZE=4]persuasion of His will[/SIZE][SIZE=4] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]The translators came to this conclusion by reading scripture, what they are interpreting faith to be could only come from 1 place "The God breathed word" its not hard, you can pray and "Ask god for wisdom , who gives freely" "Let all you requests", and asking be made to GOD[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]God bless.[/SIZE]
Not everyone who thinks he knows Jesus actually knows Him or is known by Him. This is rather obvious. On the other hand, to call on the name of the Lord presupposes sincerity of heart in doing so. And yet, we know that the heart of fallen man is totally wicked and deceitful (Jeremiah 17:9-10). This is why many passages in the Bible speak of fruits as a means of authenticating true faith. This is why Jesus said that you must be born again (John 3:3). The sinful flesh cannot please God (Romans 8:6-8).
But your teachers' are men, are they not? So, how do you (i.e., personally) discern that which is good and right from that which isn't?
He can't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
the obtuseness revealed in this ironic statement from the JW school of men absolutely astounds me.
Blind faith in his JW school of men!
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinacled
Even if hljc is a JW. Does that in any way justify how ill you spoke?
Ask late grape and she will tell you who comforted her regardless.
Being that there is a many-membered body.
And that conduct of speech has been stipulated for the Christian subforum rules. I strongly suggest you bridle that tongue and ask the Lord for help with fruits of self-disciple.
Your oversensitivity and tendency to be offended is beyond the pale. Seek your "safe place" and a "fuzzy puppy" and leave the adults alone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47
The holy spirit revealed truths --at the proper time. Matt 24:45--through these teachers Jesus appoints. Thus they made correction in front of the whole world so that this is a reality truth-Daniel 12:4--Few see it. Few will find the road Jesus taught. One should really listen to Jesus and his teachers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade
But he didn't appoint your teachers, neither are we called to follow them.
Of course, Jesus did not appoint them. They self-appointed themselves.
Not everyone who thinks he knows Jesus actually knows Him or is known by Him. This is rather obvious. On the other hand, to call on the name of the Lord presupposes sincerity of heart in doing so. And yet, we know that the heart of fallen man is totally wicked and deceitful (Jeremiah 17:9-10). This is why many passages in the Bible speak of fruits as a means of authenticating true faith. This is why Jesus said that you must be born again (John 3:3). The sinful flesh cannot please God (Romans 8:6-8).
You should guard your heart from being corrupted, and your fruit won't spoil.
It’s important to look at the context of the last quotation. Paul is talking about cultural differences not being a factor in whether one can be a believer or not:
Romans 10:12-13 (NIV)
For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile —the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all
who call on him, for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
So the meaning of “saved” here is the meaning that most believers today would ascribe to it: being eternally saved, or the gift of salvation. Paul is merely trying to say that no matter where you live, what language you speak, or what nationality you are, if you believe on Jesus Christ as the Messiah & Savior, you will be saved. God bless you.
It’s important to look at the context of the last quotation. Paul is talking about cultural differences not being a factor in whether one can be a believer or not:
Romans 10:12-13 (NIV)
For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile —the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all
who call on him, for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
So the meaning of “saved” here is the meaning that most believers today would ascribe to it: being eternally saved, or the gift of salvation. Paul is merely trying to say that no matter where you live, what language you speak, or what nationality you are, if you believe on Jesus Christ as the Messiah & Savior, you will be saved. God bless you.
Romans 10:13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
Acts 2:21 And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved
Thoughts?
Thoughts? Sure. Howard Storm's NDE. A self-professed meanie, atheist.
Crosses over while in a hospital in France, (never go to the hospital on the weekend in France, is the lesson...LOL ).
He is soon surrounded by very bad spirits kicking him and tearing at him in the dark. He calls out to Jesus or God. "Our Father Who art in Heaven , I pledge allegiance to the flag..."
He didn't know how to pray. Short version...Jesus comes...he melts into his arms, never feeling such love....yadayada...is sent back...
Is now a pastor.
Ok, another NDE....(I've read 100)...a woman, an atheist, shoots herself in the chest on her couch.
On the Other Side she is in the semi-dark, but with little groups lounging, hanging out talking, she walks around them...
She thinks, "Hmm, these people look like they are dressed like in Jesus' day..."
Soon, there is a clearing and a pleasant older women, she does not know, greets her and
makes her feel comfortable.
Soon, she says she is going back to change her life, 'get another chance'....The woman is surprised!
When the older woman says, "Rem when you said that group looked like they were from Jesus' day? JUST THATrecognition that Jesus existed....and you are going back !"
The most important question of all,'' Saved from what?''
Jesus didn't come offering a betrothal to Jews, he came offering a betrothal standing as a Jew. That betrothal offered to the ten lost tribes which were purposely seeded as seeds for a future harvest when many Gentiles would come to God's religion to join the chosen people.
Jews do not get born again, Gentiles having not been born as the chosen, they have to be born again, they have to be grafted and adopted into Israel to stand as a co heir with Judah, not a replacement of Judah.
Jesus brought a covenant for two peoples, not one. Jesus only brings a covenant for the ten lost tribes of Ephraim, and Judah.
The beginning of Christianity was Gentiles converting to Judaism, the religion Jesus was to come like a super hero yo.
Those first Gentiles converts came as pagans who worshipped more than one God, but now they would convert to the belief in just one God, and they would now reject everything involving other gods.
That conversion of Gentiles being grafted and adopted into Israel under the covenant Messiah brought for Ephraim and Judah, it stopped 2000 years ago when Gentiles stopped converting to the religion of Jesus just 100 years after Jesus died.
Today's modern Christianity has nothing to do with the first Christianity and those first Gentile converts.
Today's modern Christianity is simply not the religion that Jesus loved and practiced, they have very little in common. Today's Christianity no longer believe in the feasts of Jesus that saved those first Gentiles, and now we just have people running around claiming promises from a Passover they don't keep or know, they brag of having the power of Pentecost when they teach others not to even keep or study Pentecost, and they brag about the second coming of the Lord appointed for the fall season when they don't believe in any of those days.
How do you convince a Gentile about what Rosh Hashanah comes to do when they think all the Holy days of Jesus are passed away, outlawed, and despised?
It's just so silly, so bizarre, that you can't convince a person that they can't know a subject until they study that subject?
Romans 10:13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
Acts 2:21 And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved
Matt 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Thoughts?
" Lord , Lord " in Matt 7:21 as if much repeating makes it carry more sway is used by Jesus to emphasize
somebody engaged in full dishonest insincere suck up mode .
The single usage of "Lord" in the other two verses placing the emphasis on sincerity .
Pretty obvious really .
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