pray in vain (believer, verses, translation, creation)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
How about trying to consider plain facts. Ask yourself if every single person who ever lived obeyed the 10 commandments. It was God's desire that people would obey them. Did it happen?
The answer is simple: NO.
You are embarrassing yourself. I have done my best to explain it to you, but you refuse to consider that "desire" might mean different things when put in different contexts.
I showed you what God said about His desire (not my desire - His desire). He is the one that says He will accomplish it. He said it numerous times in the scriptures. I only had to show a few samples.
Finn_Jarber, I gave you the verses. You can look them up and see each of the contexts the word "desire" is used in. Fact is Finn_Jarber, you have been told by a few posters now that the game is not over. I haven't heard you reconcile that fact.
But here goes. I'm asking myself if every single person who ever lived obeyed the 10 commandments. (<== your question to me) Ok, now here is my answer:
"Not Yet!. God isn't done. God is still accomplishing His desire".
I showed you what God said about His desire (not my desire - His desire). He is the one that says He will accomplish it. He said it numerous times in the scriptures. I only had to show a few samples.
Finn_Jarber, I gave you the verses. You can look them up and see each of the contexts the word "desire" is used in. Fact is Finn_Jarber, you have been told by a few posters now that the game is not over. I haven't heard you reconcile that fact.
And I showed you your error, but you still fail to see it. Anyone with an open mind would be asking themselves if they might have been wrong, while some others will never admit it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep
But here goes. I'm asking myself if every single person who ever lived obeyed the 10 commandments. (<== your question to me) Ok, now here is my answer:
"Not Yet!. God isn't done. God is still accomplishing His desire".
Well, since the commandments were given 5000 years ago, it is a little late for everyone to obey them, since billons of people have already disobeyed them.
God's permissive will is permissive. It permits people to go against God's will.
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 12-19-2010 at 03:25 PM..
And I showed you your error, but you still fail to see it.
Well, since the commandments were given 5000 years ago, it is a little late for everyone to obey them, since billons of people have already disobeyed them.
God's permissive will is permissive. It permits people to go against God's will.
Yes, Finn_Jarber, you did fail to show me my error.
I think it is a fair question: Did God desire us to obey the 10 commandments, and did God desire us to believe in Jesus?
God is obviously wiling that humanity experience sin and evil ...
Isa 54:16
See, it is I who created the blacksmith who fans the coals into flame and forges a weapon fit for its work. And it is I who have created the destroyer to work havoc
Above it is clear that God created the destroyer, who is Satan, for the very purpose of wreaking havoc in creation. Why? Because in order to purify the creation, it must first be destroyed and then made new again.
And we read again ...
Pro 16:4
The LORD has made all things for himself: yes, even the wicked for the day of evil.
So God made the wicked for his own purpose ... As it is written above ... Do you believe that?
So if the scriptures tell us that God makes the wicked for his own purpose, then why do you assume that God does not want people to be wicked?
And we read again ...
Isa 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
God created evil ... He has a reason for evil and sin existing. Evil and sin existing are not divine mistakes. Why don't you believe what the scriptures teach?
The new testament also testifies of these things ...
Rom 8:20-21
For the creation was subjected to vanity, not of its own will, but by reason of him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the liberty of the glory of the children of God.
God subjected the whole creation to the vanity of sin and death for his own good reason, in order that the creation itself will also one day be delivered from the bondage to corruption(sin and death) that God himself subjected it to ...
As it is written ...
Romans 11:32
For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
God has bound all people over to disobedience, to sin and death and corruption, he has made evil and wickedness for his own purposes, so that he my show us all mercy.
It was always a part of Gods plan that humanity would be under the bondage of sin and death, so that we could learn what true grace and mercy are.
God will get everything he wants, and everything that happens is a part of his plan. Even if you dont believe it and even if you believe God is not able to get what he wants and even if you believe that Gods will is not and will never be done ...
As it is written ...
Isaiah 55:11
so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.
You are simply deceived like many others by the traditions of men and the doctrines of devils which have been taught through the false religions of the mystery Babylon, which is the traditional orthodox religions of the world, including Judaism, Islam, and Christianity.
It is Gods will that sin and death and evil and wickedness exist in this world for a time, so that we might learn what righteousness and life and goodness are ... And one day, when God has accomplished all his purpose for evil and sin and death, they will be done away with, and Gods will that all believe and be saved and made righteous will be accomplished.
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 12-19-2010 at 03:58 PM..
It is Gods will that sin and death and evil and wickedness exist in this world for a time, so that we might learn what righteousness and life and goodness are ... And one day, when God has accomplished all his purpose for evil and sin and death, they will be done away with, and Gods will that all believe and be saved and made righteous will be accomplished.
Intersting. You are saying that God told us to love our neighbor, but he actually desires us to NOT love our neighbor? You have interesting views, but I can't say that I agree. I know God desires us to love our neighbor, but not everyone obeys His desire. This is proven every single day in our lives.
You know this is true, but you just won't admit it.
Intersting. You are saying that God told us to love our neighbor, but he actually desires us to NOT love our neighbor? You have interesting views, but I can't say that I agree. I know God desires us to love our neighbor, but not everyone obeys His desire. This is proven every single day in our lives.
You know this is true, but you just won't admit it.
If God says that He does what He desires and your saying He doesn't then do you think those are just translation errors?
Intersting. You are saying that God told us to love our neighbor, but he actually desires us to NOT love our neighbor? You have interesting views, but I can't say that I agree. I know God desires us to love our neighbor, but not everyone obeys His desire. This is proven every single day in our lives.
You know this is true, but you just won't admit it.
It is very interesting how you simply ignore all the scriptures that i posted which teach that God has a purpose for evil and sin and wickedness. However, your ignoring them will never make them go away ...
I know no such thing. What i do know is that God hardens people so that they disobey his commands, just like he hardened the heart of Pharaoh in order to make him disobey his command to let Israel Go.
God has mercy on whomever he will have mercy, and whomever he will harden he hardens. If God hardens someones heart, they will not be able to obey him and do the good and right thing. That is until God chooses to have mercy on them and renew their hardened heart of stone and their carnal mind of disobedience and unbelief.
You reject the truth of the scriptures which clearly teach that God is sovereign and that he works everything out according to the counsel of his own will, and you teach the false doctrine that he works out everything according to the will of man.
You believe and teach that Christ, who is the LIVING word of God, is a failure and will never accomplish Gods desire and what he sent Christ to do, which is to save the whole world.
Yes, Christ said we should love our enemies, and one day everyone will love one another so that there will no longer be any enemies.
You simply reject what the scriptures clearly teach about Gods sovereignty in favor of the traditions of men which teach that God in Christ is a failure and that sin and death will be victorious throughout most of creation for ever.
But your false religion will be destroyed, it is even now being destroyed ... "Come out of her, and touch not the unclean thing, lest you take part in her judgments."
At judgment when we are all standing before God, you can tell him then that he can never get what he desires, and that his will can never be accomplished, and we will all see where that gets you ...
P.S.
And i realize that God has hardened your heart(along with so many others like you) so that you believe that He can never accomplish his desire/will to save all people. And when the game is done, and all people are saved, then the whole world will know that he is God and that he works all things out according to his own will, and not according to the corrupt will of men and their vain imaginations and evil false religions.
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 12-19-2010 at 04:53 PM..
I know no such thing. What i do know is that God hardens people so that they disobey his commands, just like he hardened the heart of Pharaoh in order to make him disobey Gods command to let Israel Go.
Well, either it is God's desire that we follow His instructions, or it isn't.
Does God desire us to love our neighbors, or not?
You keep saying "love God, and love your neighbor". It must be God's desire for us. Yes, or no? We know for a fact that this command is violated by people EVERY SINGLE DAY.
All of a sudden you are saying that God prevents us from obeying His desire, so either it is NOT HIS DESIRE, or it is His desire, but HE IS NOT GETTING HIS DESIRE.
Which is it?
Quote:
And i realize that God has hardened your heart(along with so many others like you) so that you believe that He can never accomplish his desire/will to save all people
The spirituality judge has spoken once again. No, my friend, God will judge my heart, not you.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
