Racism on The North Side? (Justice: sale, felony, cost)

[midwest1]

because if that is what you believe...then you basically believe the cops can come and wrestle any one in the country who didn't pay his tax appropriately to the ground...who cares if they have access to air...for they are criminals....they DARED TOLIVE FREE and NOT PAY A BULL**** TAX!

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by ChicagoMeO

If any person does a crime, then there ought to be consequences. In every neighborhood. Like getting arrested.

Sure, but those consequences shouldn't involve being choked to death.

And I'm tired of this "cops are sacred" B.S. You should be able to punch a cop in the face without being killed for it. Cops are relying on firearms and severe violence far too often in situations where they are not warranted. And we allow them to do this with impunity when we fail to indict the bad apples.

I understand that being a police officer is a tough job, and that a chance encounter on a bad day could end in your death. Police should be praised for their sacrifices given for the common good. But a guy selling cigarettes illegally on the street should NEVER be choked to death. And there are ways to restrain unarmed people without using lethal shots from firearms.

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by midwest1

because if that is what you believe...then you basically believe the cops can come and wrestle any one in the country who didn't pay his tax appropriately to the ground...who cares if they have access to air...for they are criminals....they DARED TOLIVE FREE and NOT PAY A BULL**** TAX!

Agreed. Deadly force only needs to be used when there is a direct threat to an officer's or other person's life.

[Drover]

Originally Posted by midwest1

He was daring to do the same damn thing the founders of the nation did at the Boston Tea Party...dare to avoid b/s punitive taxes which impoverish the people. the fact that our armed police are even being used as basically nothing more than goonish tax collectors is every bit as frightening as Garner's death is sad.

Man, this seemingly lean post gives us so much fat to chew on.

For instance, one might note that absurd hyperbole such as "our armed police are even being used as basically nothing more than goonish tax collectors" distracts us from core issues by prompting us to argue over such nonsense. Obviously, armed police are employed to deter and respond to a complete range of offenses from jaywalking to murder. And in a more reasonable climate that wasn't supercharged by such hyperbole, we wouldn't bother with such sophistry and we would get on with the business of discussing the more serious aspects presented by this case.

Here's another chunk to chew on: is it really apt to compare Garner to the patriots who fomented the rebellion that led to the founding or our nation? Was Garner a warrior for a greater cause, or was he just in it to make a few illicit bucks for himself?

Which leads to the next chunk to chew on: were the Tea Party dissidents really patriots for the greater cause of autonomy and independence, or were they just looking out for their own personal bottom line?

Which leads to the next chunk to chew on: If Garner can be compared to the Tea Party dissidents without any evidence that he was standing for a cause greater than himself or his bottom line, doesn't that implicitly indict the Tea Party for being motivated by little more than self-interest? If so, how does that metaphor work in Garner's favor?

And the final chunk to chew on -- and IMO the most profound yet overlooked aspect of this whole debacle that midwest1's post touches upon -- is the maddening disconnect between the left's endorsement of government power to micromanage peoples' everyday behavior and its revulsion at the logical consequences of unleashing government power to do just that. This is not meant as a partisan or ideological cheap shot at the left, seeing how the anger and bewilderment over the non-indictment in this particular case has crossed ideological lines. That said, how many people protesting that the police should have left Garner alone because he wasn't really bothering anyone or breaking any laws that really matter have supported the very laws and ordinances that criminalized his otherwise benign behavior?

This encounter happened in a city whose citizens believe they have such a critical stake in how many ounces of sweetened beverages their neighbors should be allowed to drink at a restaurant or movie theater that they voted to empower their government to impose restrictions on such quantities. These same citizens have supported exceedingly punitive taxes on tobacco to discourage their neighbors from smoking. Did it never occur to these people that when they empower government to micromanage their neighbors' individual decisions that there would be more confrontations between the state and the citizen over these trivial matters, such as some otherwise harmless dude selling loosies? Did they think that micromanagement would be a self-enforcing process?

[Drover]

Originally Posted by Runuova

You're useless Drover!

Thanks, I aim to please.

Originally Posted by Runuova

After all that was said, this is what you focused on? Guess you didn't notice when I said the same would happen to a black guy suggesting what's wrong with whites in a white neighborhood huh? I know you like to kick the badger on most of these race infused threads. Nice try!

Such the little race baiter!

You're the one who indulged in the stereotype, not me. And I like how you believe you can absolve yourself of doing so by saying "white people would do the same thing." Tell you what, hop on Red Line some day and get off at, say, Fullerton or Sheridan or herever, and share your opinions with a bullhorn. Do you honestly think anyone's gonna touch you, or are they more likely to think you're a nutter and shake their heads as they walk on?

Any time you'd like to put your theory to the test, I'll be glad to stand guard right next to you to help you deal with anyone who tries to physically confront you.

[midwest1]

Chew chew away...was meant to be exceedingly juicy.....sadly, only a tiny minority will mastic ate well over it.

[rzzzz]

Originally Posted by Drover

And the final chunk to chew on -- and IMO the most profound yet overlooked aspect of this whole debacle that midwest1's post touches upon -- is the maddening disconnect between the left's endorsement of government power to micromanage peoples' everyday behavior and its revulsion at the logical consequences of unleashing government power to do just that. This is not meant as a partisan or ideological cheap shot at the left, seeing how the anger and bewilderment over the non-indictment in this particular case has crossed ideological lines. That said, how many people protesting that the police should have left Garner alone because he wasn't really bothering anyone or breaking any laws that really matter have supported the very laws and ordinances that criminalized his otherwise benign behavior?

This encounter happened in a city whose citizens believe they have such a critical stake in how many ounces of sweetened beverages their neighbors should be allowed to drink at a restaurant or movie theater that they voted to empower their government to impose restrictions on such quantities. These same citizens have supported exceedingly punitive taxes on tobacco to discourage their neighbors from smoking. Did it never occur to these people that when they empower government to micromanage their neighbors' individual decisions that there would be more confrontations between the state and the citizen over these trivial matters, such as some otherwise harmless dude selling loosies? Did they think that micromanagement would be a self-enforcing process?

Tthe soda thing happened in NYC and was entirely Republican Bloomberg's personal health mission. "The citizens" had nothing to do with that and in fact it was rejected.

[Runuova]

Originally Posted by Drover

Thanks, I aim to please.


You're the one who indulged in the stereotype, not me. And I like how you believe you can absolve yourself of doing so by saying "white people would do the same thing." Tell you what, hop on Red Line some day and get off at, say, Fullerton or Sheridan or herever, and share your opinions with a bullhorn. Do you honestly think anyone's gonna touch you, or are they more likely to think you're a nutter and shake their heads as they walk on?

Any time you'd like to put your theory to the test, I'll be glad to stand guard right next to you to help you deal with anyone who tries to physically confront you.

At least this site allows you to purposely use your education somewhere.

You're trying to take what I said to an elevated level and give it no merit. Try having a private conversation with a group of blacks and tell them your thoughts on what we need to do with our race. Doesn't matter if they are Hispanic, black or whatever! And you know what, I'll even come and meet you when you do. Remember, no bullhorn!

My point was that people find themselves very comfortable telling blacks how to better their race on the Internet.

[Drover]

Originally Posted by rzzzz

Tthe soda thing happened in NYC and was entirely Republican Bloomberg's personal health mission. "The citizens" had nothing to do with that and in fact it was rejected.

It was rejected by the courts, not by plebiscite or legislative action. And that stupid ordinance was supported by nearly half the city's population. There was only one borough where a majority supported it, and by a wide margin at that. I'll give you a hint which one: it's the one inhabited overwhelmingly by rich elite leftists who are all too willing to tax the hell out of and micro-legislate things like tobacco and soft drinks they don't consume, because after all the little people in the outer boroughs shouldn't be consuming them either. Yet they show little such concern for alcohol even though it's a major contributor to health problems, violence, and social disorder. Can't drink more than 16 ounces of soda at a time but you can serve cocktails in fish bowls for all they care. Don't touch their cosmos and craft beers!

[probablyimnotsure]

Originally Posted by midwest1

He was daring to do the same damn thing the founders of the nation did at the Boston Tea Party...dare to avoid b/s punitive taxes which impoverish the people. the fact that our armed police are even being used as basically nothing more than goonish tax collectors is every bit as frightening as Garner's death is sad.

The guy was a petty criminal and you're comparing him to what the founders of our nation did at the Boston Tea Party. That's over-dramatic, would you agree?