OOPPS! California deficit now projected at 25 BILLION, bring on the taxes Moonbeam (Fremont: neighborhoods, inspectors)

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by majoun

Austria has very low property taxes but very high taxes on everything else. Spain's taxes are about 10% of the value of the property.

Those in the know cite much of Austria's stability to home ownership... Land tends to stay in the family and adding up or out to accommodate the next generation is encouraged to limit sprawl and the extra costs to build infrastructure.

It is government policy to encourage home ownership because home owners are generally more self sufficient and require fewer services at government expense. Owning multiple homes is discourage by imposing a hefty speculation tax on resales and many obstacles are placed preventing foreign ownership that tends to inflate prices.

Property tax is not so much based on Property Value and is more based on cost of direct government services provided... with the key being direct as in roads, snow removal, fire protection.

Young people receive a tremendous cash assistance when building out on existing property... it comes with strings in that the home must incorporate a myriad of energy efficiencies in design, construction and be modest in size...

Also, every home must have a chimney suitable for wood burning... don't have to use it... just has to be in place should heating oil or gas become scarce... don't want anyone to freeze.

I found sales taxes very high but came to accept it... it was built into the price vs being added to the posted price as it is here...

For the most part, consumers have a choice to make a purchase or not..

Property Taxes pre-Prop 13 were really out of control because they were based on assessor opinion which is based on what some fool might be willing to pay of a home at a particular time...

Predictability in taxation is a good thing and Prop 13 adds much to insure predictability.

[Vascodagama]

Originally Posted by majoun

Spain and Britain aren't exactly doing too well right now (Spain has similar fiscal problems) but both have higher homeownership rates than the USA.
Canada is in far better economic shape than the US or most other developed countries and doesn't have mortgage deductions, yet has a higher rate of home ownership.



So I'm supposed to compare current policy to itself?

Do you even know what a comparison is?



Not all taxes are created equal. California's present day fiscal model of super high fees, fines, and sales taxes combined with low property taxes is completely insane. Not to mention the bureaucracy associated with starting a business, which is destructive to the state's vitality. The high fees associated with starting any type of business hurts CA's business climate as does its high corporate taxes. High sales taxes discourage consumption. I.e. a blend of the worst aspects of left and right.



Much of it for Canada....



Because the educational system like much else in the state is broken, particularly in the case of very large school districts with entrenched bureaucracies and corruption up the yingyang. And the excessive power of the teachers' union is a negative factor.
The link between property taxation and education funding is a big reason why the schools have declined ; although not the entire reason. There should be a law limiting the size of school districts at 100K students before said districts are broken up (only 2 or at most 3 school districts, all in SoCal,would be affected). In addition, the comprehensive model should be phased out and more charters started. This is a topic for a different thread, really.



California needs a new Constitution. Badly. Ironically, when there was a measure to call a new constitutional convention earlier this year, it was (some) conservatives who were most opposed to it. California has the world's third longest constitution and it is outdated and dysfunctional. A new constitution would make the state more manageable



You didn't read what I wrote. I'm for lowering most taxes, even corporate taxes (if businesses create new jobs in the state). The only taxes I'm for raising are property taxes.

With Prop 13 repealed the state would have a surplus and there could be tax cuts in other areas.

You are comparing apples and oranges. The US has more than double the population than Spain, Britain and Canada combined and has a much different economy. Canada is currently going through a housing bubble so they are trailing what everyone else has already done. The housing bubble and resulting crash in the US was created by government and the big banks out of greed and corruption but yet no one is even being investigated.
You don’t get it. You and I were taken for a big ride by the politicians we elected. The politicians still have the liberal voters fooled into thinking the bad economy was the fault of the people and the people should pay more in taxes to fix the problems. In California the corrupt and greedy politicians caused the California mess but they want the people to pay for it and continue business as usual in Sacramento.

[majoun]

Originally Posted by Don9

[color=black][font=Verdana][color=black][font=Verdana]You are comparing apples and oranges. The US has more than double the population than Spain, Britain and Canada combined and has a much different economy.

California's economy is the same size as Spain's (and has similar problems). The EU as a whole is bigger than the US economy and, while not doing well by any means, has lower unemployment.

And by "a much different economy", you mean that ALL the EU countries still have manufacturing?

The housing bubble and resulting crash in the US was created by government and the big banks out of greed and corruption but yet no one is even being investigated.

Both parties were bought off.

You don’t get it. You and I were taken for a big ride by the politicians we elected.

I get it completely, you just don't have good reading comprehension

The politicians still have the liberal voters

So it's only the fault of the liberals?
You didn't read the ideas I had about taxation.

In California the corrupt and greedy politicians caused the California mess but they want the people to pay for it and continue business as usual in Sacramento.

Business as usual in Sac is part of the problem. That's why a new constitution is necessary. Unless you think secession is the answer. I don't think so right now due to how difficult it would be to achieve (it would require an act of Congress) but it may be feasible in the future.

[Phil306]

Let me see: I made about 10 grand in OT this past few weeks. Thank you liberals. Thank you.

[UB50]

Originally Posted by TimC2462

Somewhere down the line, Jerry will flip flop on this promise. I already knew he wasn't going to hold up to this promise.... the reason why I didn't vote for him.

Hahahahahahahahaha!!! The reason why you didn't vote for Jerry is because YOU ARE IN LOVE WITH MEG!!! You were thrilled by the idea of a billionaire who was willing to throw millions at a problem!

You know, if Meg were any good, she would have won this race -- but she didn't. That's because she wasn't any good.

[UB50]

Originally Posted by majoun

The name "Moonbeam" came from his advocacy of a telecommunications satellite, something that is now mainstream worldwide.

What's really funny is that he used to talk about the "personal phone."

I mean, how dumb could that be? A personal phone you carried around with you? Yeah, right...

[hoffdano]

Originally Posted by majoun

That seems to be happening anyways based on some of the posts in these threads. I doubt it would cause that many people to lose their homes if any. It would establish a ceiling on how high RE prices could rise therefore preventing another bubble.

Texas has higher property taxes than CA yet has done better in some areas than CA. Conservatives praise the "Texas model", yet part of that model is having high property taxes. If Texas had a Prop 13 it would not have been spared from the RE bubble and would be in the same shape as CA, NV, AZ or FL right now.

Texas has higher property tax RATES, but per capita collection of property taxes in Texas is LOWER than it is in California. Texas ranked #17 in 2008 while California ranked #9.

The Tax Foundation - State and Local Property Tax Collections Per Capita by State, Fiscal Year 2008

So per person, California residents pay more money per year in property taxes than they do in Texas.

That said - I believe Prop 13 harms California by making the state too dependent on more volatile taxes - especially income. A simple rollback of Prop 13 won't work though - it needs to be done in a way that limits the ability of the legislature to get their hands on the money.

[Lovehound]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

Also, every home must have a chimney suitable for wood burning... don't have to use it... just has to be in place should heating oil or gas become scarce... don't want anyone to freeze.

I don't know where you are but here in Los Angeles there's no requirement for chimneys or fireplaces and in fact many houses do not have them. Particularly after the Northridge quake many chimneys were ruined and some homeowners decided to just get rid of them. I had mine fixed and other homeowners still have broken, unusable chimneys and fireplaces.

There has been discussion that fireplaces cause air pollution and should be forbidden for that reason, particularly in places like the L.A. basin where air tends to collect when there are inversions and no winds (much of summer).

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by Lovehound

I don't know where you are but here in Los Angeles there's no requirement for chimneys or fireplaces and in fact many houses do not have them. Particularly after the Northridge quake many chimneys were ruined and some homeowners decided to just get rid of them. I had mine fixed and other homeowners still have broken, unusable chimneys and fireplaces.

There has been discussion that fireplaces cause air pollution and should be forbidden for that reason, particularly in places like the L.A. basin where air tends to collect when there are inversions and no winds (much of summer).

Thank you for making my point...

The Federal Government provides incentives to reduce foreign oil dependence... one is for EPA Certified Catalytic Clean Wood Burning Stoves

I know a number of people in the Bay Area that gladly paid the price for these efficient wood stoves, installed them with permits and NOW are being told under threat using these efficient approved devices will incur severe penalties and fines... the BAY AREA AIR QUALITY MANAGEMENT DISTRICT even staff a team of roving inspectors to cite those in violation... and PSA are run encouraging neighbors to report neighbors.

Only in California can we take a product designed and approved to be environmentally green and make users outlaws

As for CO2... it makes no difference if a tree rots in the forest or the wood is burned... the amount of CO2 released is the same.

I illustrated that even in European Countries, which Al Gore holds up as the Gold Standard for Green Technology... home are required to have a chimney... on no these are not some big brick architectural feature... rather a small 6" diameter chimney running inside the wall so in the event of a global heating oil or natural gas shortage for whatever reason... the citizens will have heating options already in place.

If California was sincere about going green they would embrace all green tech and not punish people for using EPA approved wood heat... home grown wood that could be recycled to produce heat and lessen energy dependence now must be carted off for disposal...

I've attended compliance meetings and Air Quality Staff admit the technology for environmentally sound wood burning already exist... the problem is the regulatory agencies say it is impossible to know who is using a compliant stove and who is not... I thought this is what the permit process is all about???

[Bulldogdad]

Well this thread has taken an interesting turn.