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I don't think the behavior mrdkb is informed by bisexuality. Bisexual people have the ability to be monogamous with whatever gender they happen to be in a relationship with. I've encountered the type of men he's talking about. In sociology we refer to them as MSM (Men Sexing Men) because they reject the gay label. Essentially they believed that as long as they didn't desire a romantic relationship with men they weren't gay. They went to men for sexual gratification, but had their emotional needs met by women. It's a sticky wicket to say the least because whether gay, bisexual or MSM black men are derply isolated from the gay community because of racism. Many of them fel that being honest about their orientation would also isolate them from the black community which as we know is deeply puritanical and church oriented as it pertains to sexuality. MSMs are particularly lethal because they are so nihilistic. There is at the core of their behavior a level of self loathing that is pretty much suicidal. They don't take precautions because they don't care if they live or die. I would hesitate to call the behavior sociopathic, but it comes pretty close.
All the female clients I had with HIV contracted it in what they thought were monogamous relationships. Some of the men were simultaneously sleeping with other men, but many were not. Some were unknowingly positive from previous M/M encounters that they didn't disclose to their partners. Some had used needle drugs, but oddly enough they're not particularly popular with black people. All my clients got it from a man who had sex with another man, or had been incarcerated. The high incarceration rate amongst black males is, IMO, a much bigger issue than MSM. We are all aware of the potential for rape in prison, all comics have a joke about it in their repertoire. Unfortunately, this is no joking matter and is quite devastating. Most men regardless of orientation are not willing to acknowledge this type of assault. Ideally prisons would have testing, but there's no guarantee that the men would disclose. I suppose they could use the public health protocol employed in regard to other STDs, but I'm not sure that the public will is there to do this. After all, it's just black women, and we all know how much society is concerned about this cohort.
Great post. I am not sure what else needs to said in order for StaySean23 to understand. But this behavior is alive and well in the black gay community. Along with drug use, black men in prison having that prison sex and then entering society sleeping with women - are the contributing factors to HIV in black women. If black women did not sleep with men with prision records, drug users, and this Men Sexing Men population, HIV in black women would be barely visible.
I just started working working downtown a month ago and when I heard one of my colleagues (whom is obviously gay) talk of marriage to a black woman in the past I thought, please stop it. You are gay. LEAVE BLACK WOMEN ALONE!!!!!!!
Great post. I am not sure what else needs to said in order for StaySean23 to understand. But this behavior is alive and well in the black gay community. Along with drug use, black men in prison having that prison sex and then entering society sleeping with women - are the contributing factors to HIV in black women. If black women did not sleep with men with prision records, drug users, and this Men Sexing Men population, HIV in black women would be barely visible.
I just started working working downtown a month ago and when I heard one of my colleagues (whom is obviously gay) talk of marriage to a black woman in the past I thought, please stop it. You are gay. LEAVE BLACK WOMEN ALONE!!!!!!!
I never said it didnt exist it but you guys are talking about DL men as if its the main reason there catching it and thats not true. Its just a part of the issue...
DL or gay men do not admit they ar gay on these surveys. As mentioned, I have very good 44 year friend who's gay and has that gay anonymous status. Don't ask, don't tell. They do not tell.
BTW - are you gay? Why are you refuting what other's are saying? What I am saying isn't coming from me but black gay men.
Yes I am a black gay man and that stereotype is not true at all so stop acting like this is a gay disease and acting like the main reason why women are catching it is because there dealing with Bisexual men because its not.
You use an Oprah link to convince us. HA!!! Black gay men (like Donnie McClurkin, Luther Vandross, Arsenio Hall, Tonex, Eddie Murphy, Johnny Gill) have sex with women too. They even marry them. My really good friend. My nephew. My cousin. 2 black males in a church I used to go to in NY. (One is now divorced after 2 years. He's back into homosexual activity). Several gay associates of my good freind. When I was at Stony Brook - at least 6 guys I knew - and were popular - were dating girls. All six also sleep with men. 3 hit on me..very strong advances. I was like WTF.
What do you not understand? BTW, when I confronted 2 of the gay guys at Stony Brokk they got very angry. When I began to question my good friend (over 16 yrs friends) he got defensive. He is 44 years old and still considers marriage to a women an option..yet he sleeps with men. And guess what - a really good friend of his is married, has a son, and is gay. Same with my nephew.
You can hand-out Oprah links all you want, but I am speaking from real life experience. Anonymous black gay men that sleep with black women is a problem. And they will not admit they are gay. Period!!!!
OH and another. A guy that work's at the post office in Cobb County. He works with my brother-in-law. He is married. He has sleep with a few women in the post office, yet told my brother-in-law that every so often he needs a little male genital (censoring the word he used). My brother-in-law thought he was joking. He was not. My brother-in-law told him he was gay. He said he was not. He was just freaky. True story.
Honey I volunteer for a non profit organization that deals with HIV and Aids You can google this and find out that there not just getting it from bisexual men. Its not the main reason.. You can post all the limited examples you want. studies say its not the main reason. Period
I find it interesting that the OP's article itself draws a parallel between Africa's HIV epidemic, and the growing epidemic with the African American community, and yet it doesnt seem to have any relevance to the discussion. Rather, the conversation has turned into a panel of broad speculation about the unpredictable sexuality of, and the deceptiveness of the black male, and distrust of the black male that both of those should therefore evoke from the black female.
I see a few common strains within the HIV epidemics in parts of Africa and the epidemic within the black american community. Not one of which is widespread male homosexuality or homo erotic practices in one culture or the other. Multiple studies and extensive research have clearly debunked the misguided notion of a large contingent of dishonest, untrustworthy closeted black men being responsible for proliferating the majority of hiv infections among black women. According to that same research, greater than 90% of HIV transmissions among incarcerated individuals in the U.S. occur prior to entry to prison, in which case gay black inmates presented a proportionally much, much smaller rate of HIV infections while incarcerated, as compared to other races. So, evidence thus far suggests homosexuality and bisexuality (which is just sophisticated homosexuality), are marginal factors, at most, in the spread of HIV in the black community.
BUT, the most common fact pattern that I personally see between African societies, and the black american community is rampant male promiscuity cloaked in the misguided irrationality that 1) its nearly impossible for a male to be infected with the disease through male/female sexual relations, and 2) the hypersexual male is worthy of exaltation by both men and women in those communities. Many African societies not only allow, but encourage and excuse infidelity in relationships (namely for men) under the guise of polygamy (ala Akon), or under some other primitive moral exemption stemming from patriarchy.
And even in the U.S. many black women and men, both, have embraced the player/manwhore persona. Both of these irrationalities (1 & 2) seem to be predicated upon the misinformation that a male can have virtually limitless vaginal sex, with little to no concerns of HIV transmission to him, thereby absolving him of any responsibility for remaining disease free, and instead leaving him with only one sole responsibility: Dont look, act, appear, or seem, or be gay/bisexual. Because then, and only then will your HIV status come into question. As long as you destroy the community the heterosexual way, you're good to go.
Now, I realize that the "downlow"/deceitful negro mythology is all the rage in African American society and in American media. But in African societies (at least according to the few Ghanaian Americans and Sudanese Americans Ive discussed this with, but then again, maybe they too were untrustworthy) thats just not how the game is played over there -- at all. And certainly not so in large enough numbers to explain the hiv infection rates among THEIR female population. Yet the HIV infection rates among their women closely rival the statistics found here in the U.S., and in many instances even dwarf them. All, presumably without a large downlow, or even openly gay community at all.
So, to my eyes, I see the primary problem being the mythology that both blacks and Africans cling to rationalize male hypersexuality in male female relationships. I would also ask: if HIV is prevalent in the black community mostly because of the heightened risk incurred by engaging in anal sex by deceitful black men who then have sex with women, what sexual behavior by these men then heightens the risk of genital herpes enough to adjust for the disproportionate rate of genital herpes infection in black women, according to the CDC? Is herpes also more easily spread through male homo eroticism? In theory, surely if all these dishonest, deceitful downlow black men stopped sword fighting and having anal sex with one another for just one moment, or at least stopped having sex with women after theyve had sex with other men, then we would kill 2 birds with one stone.. No? One does wonder.
Last edited by soletaire; 05-13-2012 at 06:38 PM..
Well said soletaire all it does it take some really reading on facts. Blaming the DL man is a comfortable place for heterosexual men and women to blame where they disease is coming from amongst women these days. When in fact there doing some of the nastiest crap also sleeping with tons and tons of women and tons and tons of men.
Well said soletaire all it does it take some really reading on facts. Blaming the DL man is a comfortable place for heterosexual men and women to blame where they disease is coming from amongst women these days. When in fact there doing some of the nastiest crap also sleeping with tons and tons of women and tons and tons of men.
I couldnt agree more. While deceitful men certainly exist in the forms of downlow men, incestuous child molesters, heterosexual cheaters, wifebeaters, etc., in a lot of ways, gay men are being used as scapegoats to shirk personal responsibility for addressing a much more complex problem than what is being acknowledged.
Location: where people are either too stupid to leave or too stuck to move
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyiMetro
so we are blaming this on the homosexual community? Eyes wide shut parties on xhamster? Cmon now. That's trolling.
i'm not trolling. this is real life..and i'm not blaming the gays, they aren't the problem because they aren't sleeping with women, i'm talking about not closeted men or even openly bisexual guys (to their girlfriends/wives)but down low men who sleep with women.. which hey wouldn't even be a problem(beside the blunt cheating) if they bother to use a condom with the 100s people they run thru.
Honey I volunteer for a non profit organization that deals with HIV and Aids You can google this and find out that there not just getting it from bisexual men. Its not the main reason.. You can post all the limited examples you want. studies say its not the main reason. Period
A gay male calling a heterosexual male "honey". A least you are not in the closet. I do not go that way though dude. No DL either. And yes double dipping (going both ways without comitting to one) is a major cause along with needles/drug use.
And if this is not the case, where are the "heterosexual" non-drug using black males getting it from so as to transmit to black women???
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