Isn't it bizarre humans still believe in God? (bible, myths, faith)
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Hopefuly over time, I can explain why the case for theism does not stand up, the Bible is not a reliable record, there is no logical reason to postulate a god and religious influence is on the whole, bad and we should remove its' influence from society.
In fact it might not take too long to sum the case up.
Oh yes- there's the mental stuff, but we're gradually coming to understand that. I can recall the claiming of Voices and the feeling of a guardian as proof that Matthew's mobile star must be true (1) but a mental explanation was made, and indeed when I heard an 'angelic voice' I was curious, but not awed and I felt it was something my head was doing, not angels.
Therefore I put no reliance on the mental unexplainedes as eventually bing ecidence for anything non -mundane, never mind for any particular religion or its' god.
(1) A bit cheeky, but the mental leap from "Voices are supernatural entities" to "therefore Christianity is true" was made without any intervening argument.
Mental stuff never even crossed my mind in my research for proof of god. Of course that wouldn't be valid proof!!
There isn't any 100% proof either way about the existence of god. Only probabilities. Nothing more. My researched brought me to an entirely different conclusion than yours did. At this point I can not be convinced otherwise. I am convinced the universe had a creator. Now is that creator a loving being or not? That's the question. Not so much if one exists. But that was my journey, and I wouldn't try to sway you. We are all individuals capable of making our own choices. And that is ok.
As far as irratication the idea of God from this world, I'm sad to tell you that that will never happen, but I'm quite sure you won't stop hoping it will.
This just boggles my mind how such a large percentage of the population goes to church to worship a God that doesn't exist and shows absolutely no signs of existing. Its just so primitive. Realistically it seems like once humans became smart enough to build things, have reasoning skills, write, speak, create civilizations, we would have reached the level of intelligence to realize there is no God. I just don't get it.
Mental stuff never even crossed my mind in my research for proof of god. Of course that wouldn't be valid proof!!
There isn't any 100% proof either way about the existence of god. Only probabilities. Nothing more. My researched brought me to an entirely different conclusion than yours did. At this point I can not be convinced otherwise. I am convinced the universe had a creator. Now is that creator a loving being or not? That's the question. Not so much if one exists. But that was my journey, and I wouldn't try to sway you. We are all individuals capable of making our own choices. And that is ok.
As far as irratication the idea of God from this world, I'm sad to tell you that that will never happen, but I'm quite sure you won't stop hoping it will.
Be well.
It sounds like we are not too far apart. You talk of probabilities rather than faith. You are persuaded the universe had a creator by which of course you mean an intelligent will rather than natural processes.
Well - you may be right, even if I'm not persuaded. Now, while you are right that I rather hope that the idea of a god will be as absurd as the idea of a flat earth and 6 day Creation - even though that one is still hanging on - I don't mind if the instinct is too strong to b wiped out.
What I do mind about is the influence of organized religion and particularly of course Christianity.
Now, suppose we agree to amicably differ on the idea of a Creator, what's you feeling on a long term aim to - not eradicate Christianity -but to reduce it to no more of a social influence than astrology (I'd like to see that wiped, too )
Mental stuff never even crossed my mind in my research for proof of god. Of course that wouldn't be valid proof!!
There isn't any 100% proof either way about the existence of god. Only probabilities. Nothing more. My researched brought me to an entirely different conclusion than yours did. At this point I can not be convinced otherwise. I am convinced the universe had a creator. Now is that creator a loving being or not? That's the question. Not so much if one exists. But that was my journey, and I wouldn't try to sway you. We are all individuals capable of making our own choices. And that is ok.
As far as irratication the idea of God from this world, I'm sad to tell you that that will never happen, but I'm quite sure you won't stop hoping it will.
Be well.
There's no 100% valid proof that the easter bunny or santa clause doesn't exist either. Or any of the greek gods for that matter.
It sounds like we are not too far apart. You talk of probabilities rather than faith. You are persuaded the universe had a creator by which of course you mean an intelligent will rather than natural processes.
Well - you may be right, even if I'm not persuaded. Now, while you are right that I rather hope that the idea of a god will be as absurd as the idea of a flat earth and 6 day Creation - even though that one is still hanging on - I don't mind if the instinct is too strong to b wiped out.
What I do mind about is the influence of organized religion and particularly of course Christianity.
Now, suppose we agree to amicably differ on the idea of a Creator, what's you feeling on a long term aim to - not eradicate Christianity -but to reduce it to no more of a social influence than astrology (I'd like to see that wiped, too )
I agree with you totally about organized religion. It has and still does wreck havoc. But that's mans doing.
And yes I was speaking of an intelligence that created the universe.
By the way, about the 6 day creation. There's a group of people called young earth creationist. They believe in that. Yes, absurd. But in my research, anyone with any intelligence, say PHD degree, doesn't believe in the 6 day creation. The earth is billions of years old, no doubt. They do believe in an intelligent designer, however.
..... anyone with any intelligence, say PHD degree, doesn't believe in the 6 day creation. The earth is billions of years old, no doubt. They do believe in an intelligent designer, however.
It's rather odd having a belief that the universe had an intelligent creator and yet believing that such a 'creator' could not have created the universe in an instant let alone 6 days. The two don't gel.
It's rather odd having a belief that the universe had an intelligent creator and yet believing that such a 'creator' could not have created the universe in an instant let alone 6 days. The two don't gel.
I never said he couldn't have!! I just said he didn't.
I never said he couldn't have!! I just said he didn't.
Huh??
I'm saying that if one believes in an intelligent designer,then believing that it didn't/couldn't create the universe in 6 days doesn't gel...so your statement that anyone with any intelligence, say PHD degree, doesn't believe in the 6 day creation...isn't correct. There are (much to my amazement) many very intelligent people that believe the 6 day nonsense. Intelligence doesn't always equal 'education'....if you get what I mean.
I agree with you totally about organized religion. It has and still does wreck havoc. But that's mans doing.
And yes I was speaking of an intelligence that created the universe.
Of course it has to be or we are both talking 'natural physical processes', and Theism wouldn't be in the picture. So what I'm proposing is that you and I politely agree to differ on whether we think an intelligent creator is probable or not - and I repeat that my inclination to 'something from nothing' is little more than personal preference and I really do not Know.
Where we can totally agree is on man -made religions and not only that they are false and should NOT be taught to anyone, unless they decide as adults that they want it. but they are positively harmful and their influence should be reduced, they should not be exempt from law, from investigation, from prosecution as a group, not just a few individuals thrown to the wolves. From Taxes. Even if you can't bring yourself to join us as an irreligious Agnostic theist (I am an irreligious agnostic non -theist, or an "a -theist' as it is called), it would be good if you don't fight us, and put 'none' rather than some religion. It all helps.
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By the way, about the 6 day creation. There's a group of people called young earth creationist.
I do believe I have heard of them
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They believe in that. Yes, absurd. But in my research, anyone with any intelligence, say PHD degree, doesn't believe in the 6 day creation. The earth is billions of years old, no doubt. They do believe in an intelligent designer, however.
They can put up an astonishingly convincing argument. They have scientists, lawyers, politicians, and crafty bastards who can use all kinds of mixes of lies, misrepresentation, denial, dismissing evidence (science is always getting things wrong), unknowns and oddities to build up a case that can seem persuasive. Though it is always from the 'It is true (Genesis says so) disprove it' starting -point (which can be surprisingly hard to disprove when they can just make stuff up to Explain away problems) when the weight of evidence (for an old earth and evolution) is really far better.
In fact I'd say the oft overlooked Polystrates (once the top evidence for a Flood -now primary evidence against it) must have finally dun for it.
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Nice sharing with you. Have a great day!!
Very nice. I thought our exchange was very productive and encouraging. Even if you can't be persuaded to sneak out of of Camp Theism and join us in a baby barbeqeue at Fort Fornication -in -the -streets, I hope you may think better of atheists, after this.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 04-25-2017 at 05:16 AM..
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