What is the deal with the insane Bellingham housing market?? (Vancouver: shopping mall, metro)
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Vancouver does indeed have a “international” vibe. But at the end of the day Seattle has a more objective global impact through industry and music. Amazon, Boeing, Microsoft etc…..In many ways Vancouver is a paper tiger.
It's that international vibe and culture that I'm referring to and enjoy which comes with greater cultural diversity. That's a lot different than an international 'Power City' with global impact economically. Some are more focused on jobs which I'm not here at all. I grew up in one the largest power cities in the world which is Los Angeles and have also lived near the Bay Area. So, I recognize both including their differences. Seattle doesn't feel that great by comparison besides its overcrowding, traffic and other societal problems facing most large cities in America. Sure, there is Amazon, Boeing, Microsoft. But even those companies have moved large parts of their workforce to other states. That's not to say to it still doesn't offer jobs and professional opportunities. But that is not at all what I'm taking about with regards to Vancouver BC. If that's your focus, than Seattle offers more, obviously. It's also clearly why some prefer it.
From an international cultural feel, Seattle doesn't come close to many other cities including those larger metros in California, the east coast or smaller cities including Vancouver, BC. The population demographic makes a big difference from a cultural standpoint when just walking the streets and meeting people. Vancouver BC is quite a bit more international in that regard. A city doesn't need to be an economic powerhouse to feel international at all. Those are two separate characteristics in my experience traveling to many cities for work and pleasure. A perfect example of this is Monterey, CA which is the Language Capitol of the World where I've also lived. It does feel very international living there while getting to meet and interact with people from all over the world who go there to study and then share their culture. Monterey celebrates being Language Capital of the World
Derek
Last edited by MtnSurfer; 12-28-2023 at 04:52 PM..
It's that international vibe and culture that I'm referring to and enjoy which comes with greater cultural diversity. That's a lot different than an international 'Power City' with global impact economically. Some are more focused on jobs which I'm not here at all. I grew up in one the largest power cities in the world which is Los Angeles and have also lived near the Bay Area. So, I recognize both including their differences. Seattle doesn't feel that great by comparison besides its overcrowding, traffic and other societal problems facing most large cities in America. Sure, there is Amazon, Boeing, Microsoft. But even those companies have moved large parts of their workforce to other states. That's not to say to it still doesn't offer jobs and professional opportunities. But that is not at all what I'm taking about with regards to Vancouver BC. If that's your focus, than Seattle offers more, obviously. It's also clearly why some prefer it.
From an international cultural feel, Seattle doesn't come close to many other cities including those larger metros in California, the east coast or smaller cities including Vancouver, BC. The population demographic makes a big difference from a cultural standpoint when just walking the streets and meeting people. Vancouver BC is quite a bit more international in that regard. A city doesn't need to be an economic powerhouse to feel international at all. Those are two separate characteristics in my experience traveling to many cities for work and pleasure. A perfect example of this is Monterey, CA which is the Language Capitol of the World where I've also lived. It does feel very international living there while getting to meet and interact with people from all over the world who go there to study and then share their culture. Monterey celebrates being Language Capital of the World
Derek
Frankly I find difficult to objectively find more "international vibe" in Vancouver compared to Seattle. Walk on the streets and you will notice in both a good mix of different ethnic groups, great availability of ethnic food choices, etc...
Vancouver has a noticeably higher Asian population but is under represented in other ethnic groups.
Most of the world doesn't know that Amazon etc, have anything to do with Seattle. They just think U.S. for the most part.
Also even though the impact of those companies is huge, it doesn't really translate on the street.
Lots and lots of people around the world know where these companies come from, it's like saying nobody in the world knows where and what Silicon Valley is....
Definitely it translates on the streets because it contributes to the influx of outside investment and foreign born people bringing their talent and culture and spawning other world changing ideas, technologies and companies which finance the arts, cultural events and so on.
Seattle has also left its mark culturally (Grunge Music for example), the "Starbucks lifestyle" and coffee culture is also a global contributor. Our arts and music scene is vastly larger than Vancouver with some global hitters.
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I guess it depends on what one means by international. Yes, Vancouver has a higher foreign born populace than Seattle. Vancouver at 42 percent, and Seattle at 19 percent.
Where I do not doubt that Vancouver figures are higher, this big gap is suspect and I think it could be an issue on how data is collected (who is official considered "resident" of the city?? People with citizenships? with PR status?). For example, the rather large illegal immigration component in Seattle (mostly from Latin America but not only) is probably completely invisible to that survey.
Another problem is comparing the two downtowns alone which can be misleading. Seattle downtown is always been more corporate oriented where Vancouver is much more residential and retail focused. Throw Bellevue to the mix and things change, I find in downtown Bellevue or Kirkland more of the "Vancouver vibe" than in downtown Seattle. A quick example, just yesterday we went for dinner with my wife in downtown Bellevue at Fogo de Chao. There were literally only 3 or 4 tables with only Caucasians.
Last edited by saturno_v; 12-29-2023 at 01:04 PM..
Lots and lots of people around the world know where these companies come from, it's like saying nobody in the world knows where and what Silicon Valley is....
Definitely it translates on the streets because it contributes to the influx of outside investment and foreign born people bringing their talent and culture and spawning other world changing ideas, technologies and companies which finance the arts, cultural events and so on.
Seattle has also left its mark culturally (Grunge Music for example), the "Starbucks lifestyle" and coffee culture is also a global contributor. Our arts and music scene is vastly larger than Vancouver with some global hitters.
Where I do not doubt that Vancouver figures are higher, this big gap is suspect and I think it could be an issue on how data is collected (who is official considered "resident" of the city?? People with citizenships? with PR status?). For example, the rather large illegal immigration component in Seattle (mostly from Latin America but not only) is probably completely invisible to that survey.
Another problem is comparing the two downtowns alone which can be misleading. Seattle downtown is always been more corporate oriented where Vancouver is much more residential and retail focused. Throw Bellevue to the mix and things change, I find in downtown Bellevue or Kirkland more of the "Vancouver vibe" than in downtown Seattle. A quick example, just yesterday we went for dinner with my wife in downtown Bellevue at Fogo de Chao. There were literally only 3 or 4 tables with only Caucasians.
LOL
Grunge music, and Starbucks, and a restaurant with some Caucasians is your answer?
As an Italian you know that coffee culture wasn't started by Starbucks. Yes it changed the landscape in coffee shops, but you want to know a bit of irony?
The creators of Starbucks had to come to Vancouver to get the coffee type they wanted in the early days, since it wasn't available in Seattle.
"The iconic and internationally-shopped tea and coffee specialty company, Murchie’s, whose history in Canada dates back to 1894, was in large part responsible for the birth of Starbucks; yes, you read that right. "
“The seed of Starbucks can really be attributed to cofounder Gordon Bowker–both the name and the company idea. … Bowker found himself bringing back increasingly large loads of coffee with each 140-mile trek north. … On one trip, the U.S. Customs agent gently explained to him the difference between shopping and smuggling. His solution was to start a coffee company.”
For those of our readers who love Starbucks, well, it’s time to pay tribute to the then-small Canadian company that started the trend in café ambience, tea blends, and great coffee!"
Grunge music, and Starbucks, and a restaurant with some Caucasians is your answer?
I can mention the Museum of Flight, The World Fair of 1962 with the iconic Space Needle recognized everywhere, a movie like "Sleepless in Seattle" that several critics and media publications agree it was one of the greatest romantic comedy films of all time and did his bit to put Seattle on the map, the EMP, etc...
Seattle is obviously not LA, New York London or Rio but the notion that is less well known internationally than Vancouver is, at least, bizarre IMHO.
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As an Italian you know that coffee culture wasn't started by Starbucks.
Obviously in Italy we had coffee culture for way longer...but we did not internationalize it, Starbucks did, becoming a global phenomena. Schultz himself admitted that he was inspired by his trips to Milan when envisioned the future of Starbucks.
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Yes it changed the landscape in coffee shops, but you want to know a bit of irony?
The creators of Starbucks had to come to Vancouver to get the coffee type they wanted in the early days, since it wasn't available in Seattle.
"The iconic and internationally-shopped tea and coffee specialty company, Murchie’s, whose history in Canada dates back to 1894, was in large part responsible for the birth of Starbucks; yes, you read that right. "
“The seed of Starbucks can really be attributed to cofounder Gordon Bowker–both the name and the company idea. … Bowker found himself bringing back increasingly large loads of coffee with each 140-mile trek north. … On one trip, the U.S. Customs agent gently explained to him the difference between shopping and smuggling. His solution was to start a coffee company.”
For those of our readers who love Starbucks, well, it’s time to pay tribute to the then-small Canadian company that started the trend in café ambience, tea blends, and great coffee!"
Lovely subplot in the birth of Starbucks but it does not change anything...the company global story started from Seattle and the vision of Howard Schultz that bought the company and turned it into a multinational giant.
Happy New Year Everyone!
Last edited by saturno_v; 01-01-2024 at 03:39 PM..
I can mention the Museum of Flight, The World Fair of 1962 with the iconic Space Needle recognized everywhere, a movie like "Sleepless in Seattle" that several critics and media publications agree it was one of the greatest romantic comedy films of all time and did his bit to put Seattle on the map, the EMP, etc...
Seattle is obviously not LA, New York London or Rio but the notion that is less well known internationally than Vancouver is, at least, bizarre IMHO.
Obviously in Italy we had coffee culture for way longer...but we did not internationalize it, Starbucks did, becoming a global phenomena. Schultz himself admitted that he was inspired by his trips to Milan when envisioned the future of Starbucks.
Lovely subplot in the birth of Starbucks but it does not change anything...the company global story started from Seattle and the vision of Howard Schultz that bought the company and turned it into a multinational giant.
Happy New Year Everyone!
Most of the world outside of the US and Canada haven't heard of the Museum of Flight. I can guarantee my friends in Toronto and Quebec have never heard of it, let alone Europe.
As for the Space Needle, it is recognizable, but I doubt many outside of the Seattle area know that it came from the 1962 World's Fair. Sleepless in Seattle put Seattle on the map? Maybe for a few moments, but I think you are conflating international recognition for events etc, with how international a city is. Not to say events can't change a cities profile and attract more international tourists and business etc. Like the Olympics did for Vancouver, and like the 1986 World's Fair also did for Vancouver. I'd also venture to say that Whistler has more recognition worldwide, than Seattle ski areas. However if you are going to use events to show how international a place is, Vancouver does not lose in that regard.
The subplot of the Starbucks story, besides the irony, kind of shows that even back then ,Vancouver, at least with coffee and teas, had a more international bent. He had to come here, to buy the imported coffee that was unavailable in Seattle at the time. That is why he decided to start his own company and started importing.
I know nothing can be said or proven to you to change your mind.
Most of the world outside of the US and Canada haven't heard of the Museum of Flight.
You would be wrong, it is one of the most famous aviation museums in the world and among one of the top reasons for tourists to visit Seattle.
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I know nothing can be said or proven to you to change your mind.
There is very little to change my mind...I never said that nobody outside of North America has heard of Vancouver I'm simply saying that it's no more recognized internationally than Seattle and both are well behind the LA, New York, Rio, London or Sydney of this world and in terms of international flair the two cities are very similar with a significant non North American native part of population and vast choices of ethnic food. Vancouver has a larger Asian population, Seattle has more Latin American people.
I'm simply saying that it's no more recognized internationally than Seattle and both are well behind the LA, New York, Rio, London or Sydney of this world and in terms of international flair...
So? Those are all mega-cities and major ports with 5+ million in urban population, while Vancouver and Seattle are well under a million. (You left out the Bay Area.) You're comparing apples and oranges.
People weren't pointing to how big Vancouver's "profile" is internationally, but to its mix of ethnic cultures, cuisines, music, festivals, etc. Whistler is an international skiing "destination". It is 42% minority population, of which: Chinese (44%), South Asian (24%), Filipino (9%), Korean (5%), Other (18%). About 5% of the province (2% of the city) is First Nations. That Bellingham is closer to Vancouver than Seattle is a major plus, in that day-tripping is quite possible.
So? Those are all mega-cities and major ports with 5+ million in urban population, while Vancouver and Seattle are well under a million. (You left out the Bay Area.) You're comparing apples and oranges.
People weren't pointing to how big Vancouver's "profile" is internationally, but to its mix of ethnic cultures, cuisines, music, festivals, etc. Whistler is an international skiing "destination". It is 42% minority population, of which: Chinese (44%), South Asian (24%), Filipino (9%), Korean (5%), Other (18%). About 5% of the province (2% of the city) is First Nations. That Bellingham is closer to Vancouver than Seattle is a major plus, in that day-tripping is quite possible.
I never looked at the Vancouver link on CD, besides having data that is nearly 20 years old, it has errors as well.
Something as simple as shopping malls. Not only are many, many missing, they added one that doesn't exist in Vancouver BC, but in Vancouver, Washington. Westfield.
So? Those are all mega-cities and major ports with 5+ million in urban population, while Vancouver and Seattle are well under a million. (You left out the Bay Area.) You're comparing apples and oranges.
People weren't pointing to how big Vancouver's "profile" is internationally, but to its mix of ethnic cultures, cuisines, music, festivals, etc. Whistler is an international skiing "destination". It is 42% minority population, of which: Chinese (44%), South Asian (24%), Filipino (9%), Korean (5%), Other (18%). About 5% of the province (2% of the city) is First Nations. That Bellingham is closer to Vancouver than Seattle is a major plus, in that day-tripping is quite possible.
So, nothing. I'm not disputing your figures at all. Someone else started the comparison with LA and other heavy hitters, not me.
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