What do you believe is the fate of atheists after death? (America, Catholic)

[Kerby W-R]

Originally Posted by alanMolstad

The answer is - that we are not like God...

We dont think like Him.
We dont judge things as he does.
We dont look at this life in the same manner he does.

The idea that we are not the same as God fills the text of the bible.
When questioned about His actions by Job, God answers in a manner that is not what we would want.
God's answers just dont allow us to add everything up and it all come out with a sum total that is fair.

The final answer we are left with is "faith"
To trust without fully knowing,
To trust the person of God, because you know a few things about Him.
We call God as being "good" only because he calls himself that, and knowing all along that we lack a point of view that is sufficient to judge God on our own.

See the post just before yours or read this.

It is quite obvious that the God created in the Bible is of man's own image and not the other way around [see jealous fits of rage, etc].
God was created by men in the Bible so they made sure that they held the top priority while women remained second class.
If God was all omnipotent then God would already know who is going to hell and heaven. And if you say..."that is why God gave man free-will".
That is a knee-jerk answer that you have been taught and it does not answer the question, because God would still be omnipotent and would still know even if you had free-will if you were going to hell or not. So why play the game ?
There is no soul. There is a mind and that mind controls all of your thoughts and your behaviors. Even the thought that makes you think you have a soul is controlled by your mind. If you can learn how to meditate and take control over your mind's endless chatter of thoughts then you will be on a path to a better life.

[alanMolstad]

Originally Posted by Fullback32

These are two independent accounts.

Ok, but now here is another account...
(This is how we are to look at that issue)

In the history of my people, there are tons of myths that date back to a time when men rode the thunder and drank the stars.
Such stories that speak of all kinds of delirious adventures of both the living and the dead, and the weird in betweens.

Story after story...
The very stories that form the basic building blocks of our modern world, and are the reason we are the civilization we became...

But should I now consider such stories as being equal to what I know is the true relieved word of God?
Nope.

Its the same with the past teachers of science.
Each had their own addition to what had been learned before.
Each was a good attempt at understanding this world.

Kepler's ideas helped free science from the chains of false teachings of that age, but this does not mean that I now have to think Kepler was right at all...
Indeed Kepler's ideas were not.

I respect the man himself.
I respect his effort to understand the world free of false science.
I understand how hard he worked to come up with an understanding for the universe that could be substantiated by observation.
But I dont think for one moment that his ideas stand on equal footing with modern science...

It doesn't really matter to me now that millions of people in the past grew up thinking that Kepler's ideas about the universe were correct or not.
It doesn't really matter now that that his ideas were passed down to us from one generation to the next.
It doesnt really matter that kids went to school and learned his ideas.
Nor is it a concern to me that so many people of history put all their faith in his ideas.
The simple fact of life is, that my child's kindergarden book of science has a better grasp of the nature of the solar system than the many invisible cubes and polydomes that Kepler invented.

In the same way I don't believe the myths of my Viking forefathers are able to stand on equal footing as my Bible.

[alanMolstad]

Originally Posted by Kerby W-R

If God was all omnipotent then God would already know who is going to hell and heaven. .

...oh yes...and not just know as in predicting...but know as in sees.

God is not held in time.
This means that God "is" all places in all of time....from the big BANG to the Final Freeze ....
God is there in the same way and just as much as He is with you and I right now.....

no more there then here,
no less there than here.

This means that even before the start of the start...before the Big bang, God was already watching me type this to you, as he was watching you being born, and drawing your last breath.

Nothing is ever learned by God.
God has always known what he always has known or will ever know.
The number the the saved was known in it's fullness by God, before the first human stood up on 2 legs,,,before the first cell split in a pool of muck.

Yet.....at the same time we humans have free will.

[alanMolstad]

Originally Posted by Kerby W-R

If you can learn how to meditate and take control over your mind's endless chatter of thoughts then you will be on a path to a better life.

As one of the few Christians on this forum that does meditate, (See my topic on that issue) I believe a person should NOT sit in meditation with a goal...no matter how correct that goal might sound.

Too many people who have some mental problems turn to meditation as a last-ditch attempt to stay out of the looneybin.
But such efforts to me sound doomed from the start.

While some people do observe a benefit from a practice of meditation they do so only as an after effect and not as their goal.
The only goal should be to meditate...the rest of the junk we pile onto things like this doom our efforts from the start.

(I will have to build more on this topic of Christian meditation on another forum topic soon)

[alanMolstad]

Originally Posted by Kerby W-R

There is no soul. .

many people get mixed up on the topic of the use of the terms "Soul" and of "Spirit"

I know there are many who believe that a person has a body, a soul and a spirit...sort of a "Human trinity" as it were.

However I believe that the terms 'spirit" and "soul" are just different means of talking about the same basic thing...

What is this thing?
Is "it" just the human mind, the human brain activity?
Is it just small electric pulses in the human brain?

Perhaps a good way to start to answer this type of question is to tell you what the human soul/spirit is not.

When you die, they will take your body, drain out all the blood, pack different places on your dead body with different things to make it smell better.
They will stick you in a box, say a few words over you, close the lid, and lower you into the hole they dug.

Where is the soul in this?....
The answer is to go look down into the grave as that first clump of dirt falls onto the box you are in....

The soul is not down there...
Whatever goes into the grave, whatever part of you that is inside that box...is not your soul.

The human soul is wrapped in flesh...but it is not flesh.

[Kerby W-R]

I'm happy to hear you meditate. When I was young I tried to buy into all that was Biblical because my parents told me to. I am thankful that I used my own mind to explore other avenues and find a path that has really helped me to grow and be happy. Iw ish you all the best.

[alanMolstad]

Originally Posted by Kerby W-R

I'm happy to hear you meditate. .

As time goes on here and I find the free time to put down my views on that topic in more depth, you will see how what I'm talking about is based on the christian bible, and on the life of Jesus who is a very good example of the type of Christian meditation we should walk in.

Oh and by the way, you had good parents...

[alanMolstad]

I like this topic!
I like the way it has got me to draw out my ideas more and more.
I also believe that my posts of #52 - #55 are some of the best I have come up with in a mighty long time...

[svenM]

I somehow like that indian idea of the afterlife, will all people go there, or only Indians? - I imagine Gan Eden - Paradise a bit similar

btw I think this an interesting article:

http://www.truthortradition.com/modu...rticle&sid=306

[djacques]

Originally Posted by alanMolstad

The answer is - that we are not like God...

We dont think like Him.
We dont judge things as he does.
We dont look at this life in the same manner he does.

It always ends in nonsensical double-talk like this. If "good" is a word that means something entirely different to God than to us, then it is folly to call God "good." There is no sense in attempting to describe God with meaningless adjectives--or pretending we don't know what they mean.

The entire inhabited universe as we know it is built on predation and death, from bacteria to insects to human beings. If that's "God's" view of the good, we're better off staying as far away from "God" as we can get.

We call God as being "good" only because he calls himself that

Any megalomaniac or psychopath could qualify as "good" under that onerous burden of proof.