Can you be gay and a Christian?? (priests, quote, divorce)
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Is this your opinion or do you have anything to back it up? Okay, let's say that passage doesn't matter. How about these?
No Israelite man or woman is to be a shrine prostitute. Deuteronomy 23:17
There were even male shrine prostitutes in the land; the people engaged in all the detestable practices of the nations the LORD had driven out before the Israelites. 1 Kings 14:24
He expelled the male shrine prostitutes from the land and got rid of all the idols his fathers had made. 1 Kings 15:12
He rid the land of the rest of the male shrine prostitutes who remained there even after the reign of his father Asa. 1 Kings 22:46
He also tore down the quarters of the male shrine prostitutes, which were in the temple of the LORD and where women did weaving for Asherah. 2 Kings 23:7
It's also talked about in Judges when a man comes into town to stay the night (a similar story to S&G). The concubine is sent out into the group of men and they rape her, although they wanted the man.
Now don't even try and say, we'll that's the old testament and it's not relevant today. I am not trying to say we should live the way they did back then. These stories are showing you that God does not approve of men lying with men, and women lying with women.
Go to the New Testament and you'll see another that God says regarding this practice:
Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. Romans 1:26
Now tell me why you think Sodom is misinterpreted.
Is it at all possible that your examples could mean that God doesn't approve of RAPE? Or possibly PROSTITUTION? Humans can interpret written words many different ways, especially words written in a language other than what is native to the culture AND written thousands of years ago. When I read the passages you've selected above, I see very clearly that the condemnation is toward actual sins (rape and prostitution) and not 'men lying with men'.
Although the 'men lying' part definitely rings true...
Is it at all possible that your examples could mean that God doesn't approve of RAPE? Or possibly PROSTITUTION? Humans can interpret written words many different ways, especially words written in a language other than what is native to the culture AND written thousands of years ago. When I read the passages you've selected above, I see very clearly that the condemnation is toward actual sins (rape and prostitution) and not 'men lying with men'.
Although the 'men lying' part definitely rings true...
Good question!! You know I truly believe that it's a two part answer. From the text I read that God does not approve of rape and prostitution. In these instances he is speaking of male prostitution. Prostitution in any form is wrong according to God. The act of lying or let's update the word to the 21st century and say "men having sex with one another" is wrong too. When you think of prostitution what is the first thing that comes to your mind? Someone having sex with someone else (at least that's what I think of).
Here is my suggestion to anyone who truly wants to know the truth and not just out to see what he/she wants in the text. And I'm not saying that you are doing that.
Simply pray and ask God to show you the truth. Be diligent and honestly if you're heart is in the right place and you do want to know, He'll help you understand. He'll open your eyes to the truth. If you're doing it to test Him. Not a good idea.
This is where I find the entire subject irrelevant and poorly addressed and certainly not examined.
What you and others continue to do is indirectly impose this idea of salvation rather than present a thoughtful argument in favour of your beliefs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosier67
Simply pray and ask God to show you the truth. Be diligent and honestly if you're heart is in the right place and you do want to know, He'll help you understand. He'll open your eyes to the truth. If you're doing it to test Him. Not a good idea.
No one has responded yet to why gays are shunned in mainstream Christianity if they can be born again and homosexual. Why is it that Jesus is praised for being a groundbreaker because of his fellowship with tax collectors, corrupt religious figures, and prostitutes, yet the Christian Right can't look in the general direction of an openly gay person?
Yeah I agree with you. It does get old that Christians do not accept gay people. Gay people are our family, friends, neighbors, co-workers etc. What I think is sad and is not what God would have from His people is that we do not accept and love everyone. I will accept you as a person and love you as a person. I (and I say this as Christians) will not accept or approve of the lifestyle you choose because according to the Bible that is sin. Jesus rebuked the corruptness of society, he did not accept it or apologize for his actions. He loves you even if you're gay...but he will not love or accept the sin (no matter what the sin is).
Sin is sin. None is greater than another...contrary to what some churches tout. No one is perfect and there is no such thing as a sinless person...except the person of Jesus Christ. No human in the history of man, except Jesus has been without sin. I sin every day...I'm still a Christian because I've accepted Jesus in my heart, but I am not going to become automatically perfect because of this. Life is a process and being a Christian is a process. We are in a constant state of learning.
Here is my suggestion to anyone who truly wants to know the truth and not just out to see what he/she wants in the text. And I'm not saying that you are doing that.
Simply pray and ask God to show you the truth. Be diligent and honestly if you're heart is in the right place and you do want to know, He'll help you understand. He'll open your eyes to the truth. If you're doing it to test Him. Not a good idea.
Ain't that the truth. God will bring you back down to earth in a hurry. (no pun intended ) I've learned that doing things my way isn't always the best idea. Heck, I'm still learning! I'm as hard-headed as the next person, so it's taken some humility and trust to turn the reigns of my life over to God.
What you and others continue to do is indirectly impose this idea of salvation
Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheroad
This is where I find the entire subject irrelevant and poorly addressed and certainly not examined.
What you and others continue to do is indirectly impose this idea of salvation rather than present a thoughtful argument in favour of your beliefs.
The idea of salvation did not come from me or any other Christian. I was not the one to come up with it. It was God's idea. You have the choice to choose or reject. I'm not going to sit here and impose my beliefs and say you have to believe this way!! If you want to, that's great. If you don't want to then that is your choice. The Bible is clear (not me imposing my thoughts...just reading the text) that if you do not choose salvation then you are bound for hell. Yep, no one is gonna like that sentence but it is what it is.
And could you tell me why I have poorly addressed this issue and not examined it to your standard? Tell me what you would like me to say.
Last edited by Hoosier; 02-13-2007 at 12:03 PM..
Reason: did not write the sentence clearly enough for the reader to understand what I wanted to say
When you write, if you....do ....thus, you will....
If you would say, "I believe, I think, This is my idea of....."
It might be more acceptable to me and others; otherwise you are seen by me as a preacher and preaching!
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosier67
The idea of salvation did not come from me or any other Christian. I was not the one to come up with it. It was God's idea. You have the choice to choose or reject. I'm not going to sit here and impose my beliefs and say you have to believe this way!! If you want to, that's great. If you don't want to then that is your choice. The Bible is clear (not me imposing my thoughts...just reading the text) that if you do not choose salvation then you are bound for hell. Yep, no one is gonna like that sentence but it is what it is.
And could you tell me why I have poorly addressed this issue and not examined it to your standard? Tell me what you would like me to say.
When you write, if you....do ....thus, you will....
If you would say, "I believe, I think, This is my idea of....."
It might be more acceptable to me and others; otherwise you are seen by me as a preacher and preaching!
Quite honestly I don't think it would matter what I wrote. You or others would find something else to pick apart. As for my writing, not that it matters but I will state that I am a writer by trade with a bachelors in Journalism. I choose my words very carefully so as to express what I am really trying to say.
"I believe you or others will find anything to pick at when you don't agree with something from the Bible, I think that is your choice and respect that, This is my idea of of how life should be lived according to the Bible. Again, I completely respect your opinion as you are entitled to it just as I am mine."
Look at your words: if you simple.....! is not objective. And is not good journalism.
It would read more true to me if you and others said, I pray and it works for me.....!
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosier67
Quite honestly I don't think it would matter what I wrote. You or others would find something else to pick apart. As for my writing, not that it matters but I will state that I am a writer by trade with a bachelors in Journalism. I choose my words very carefully so as to express what I am really trying to say.
"I believe you or others will find anything to pick at when you don't agree with something from the Bible, I think that is your choice and respect that, This is my idea of of how life should be lived according to the Bible. Again, I completely respect your opinion as you are entitled to it just as I am mine."
I am at peace in knowing who I am and what I feel...perfectly comfortable in my understanding that I was created this way, no matter what other people's opinions of WHO I AM AND WHAT IS NATURAL FOR ME. The bold caps are what is such a frustrating point to this issue - nosey people with harsh judgements about things they don't understand, things that don't concern or affect them.
"Judge not, lest ye be judged." Hmmm...where have I read that?
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men lying with men
) I've learned that doing things my way isn't always the best idea. Heck, I'm still learning! I'm as hard-headed as the next person, so it's taken some humility and trust to turn the reigns of my life over to God.
What you and others continue to do is indirectly impose this idea of salvation
