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I did not read all 51 pages of this thread, so if I say something that has already been said, than please forgive me. However, I did read a lot of the replies and noticed that a good bit of them were along these lines: "If a person quits his homosexual acts, and asks for forgiveness in Jesus, than yes he will be forgiven." Now, this is what I find funny about your typical religion. That is the way people interpret it in this era. However that is not what the bible says.
Leviticus 20:13 states it this way: "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them."
So if you believe in the bible, and everything it says should be held in your heart, than that means we should murder all homosexuals. But, that's funny, because we as a "Christian nation" aren't obviously rounding up gay men and women and performing mass murder on them. Why not? Probably, because that would be immoral. So, the greatest book of all time, the book by which all persons should live their lives, and receive their moral values, would be immoral in today's world. Isn't that weird? And, that is not the only case like it. I have plenty more if anyone would be interested in hearing them.
You need to go back and read the pages you said you didn't read. The verse you quote is in the OT Law and, according to Romans, Christ is the end of the law.
You need to go back and read the pages you said you didn't read. The verse you quote is in the OT Law and, according to Romans, Christ is the end of the law.
I'm not trying to be snide or rude, but could you post that part of Romans for me?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ian6479
what difference does it make to anyone if somebody is gay?? what is it with the christians obsession with it? shouldn't it be their choice to live how they want to live? The whole point of living in a free country is that you have the right to be who you are, without being punished or judged because somebody else doesn't agree with it. Remember that the US was formed with a clear separation of church and state. Even if you think homosexuality is wrong, you should still support people's right to be free in their life choices. Thats the whole point of the US's democratic free society.
For me, if gays were not targeting and doing their best to influence other people's children in the schools, many people could care less. No one should be free to introduce deviant or dangerous lifestyles to other people's children, be it homosexuality, drug use, prostitution, etc.
Skillful propaganda is being applied to very young impressionable children to normalize that which is abhorrent, dangerous and unnatural. Just like games and movies filled with gun play and violence, it normalizes and desensitizes children to the realities.
I am sure everyone has noticed that not one person has come forward to say anything positive about a book written by gays explaining what it means to be gay, “The Little Black Book, Q***r in the 21 Century”. This is a book that was fully endorsed by GLSEN. That should be telling in it’s self!
I'm not trying to be snide or rude, but could you post that part of Romans for me?
Sure. And like I said there's references to the same things here in this thread (I think unless they are all running together in my head)
The Scripture is from Romans Chapter 10
Brothers, my heart's desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. Since they did not know the righteousness that comes from God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God's righteousness. Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.
Also, here's a post I made in another thread. If you're interested. The subject I was addressing here was slavery, but the way that the Law is viewed in light of Christ, is the same....I've edited down to the most appropriate part. To view the whole post, click the blue arrow beside my name.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207
Now I'm trying to keep this short because I really don't think anyone reads the long ones. But let me close by addressing the Old/New stance I take. Let me say, for those that don't understand, CHRIST CHANGED EVERYTHING!! Now those hard lined legalists will say "No, He said he didn't come to change the law but to fulfill it." OK, if I make you a promise and then I 'fulfill' the promise, what condition is the promise now? And, in fact, the same Bible that holds that verse holds this one, "Christ is the end of the law " Romans 10:4, so don't bring me legalism and also, don't bring me free license, but that's another thread, I'm sure.
So, if you want to argue a Christian stance on slavery, please argue it in the light of Christ. I'm not saying the Old Testament doesn't have a place in Christianity, I'm just saying that the Old Testament, particularly when you look at law which is what you ALL are doing, you must look at it through Christ. Otherwise, it's like me saying you condone slavery because you're American and at one time those same types of laws were on our very own books.
When the law was ENDED (Read:Christ) the law was put away. Doesn't that make sense? And I'm not really asking that question to Christians. I'm not asking that you accept the validity of Christ or God or anything else, I'm just saying that IF that's true, does that help with this whole slavery thing?
AMAZNJOHN, PRETTYHATEMACHINE, and GREATBASINGUIDE, I respect all of your opinions and regard you as obviously knowledgeable folks. I post solely for your consideration.
Hope some of that helps.
EDIT: Thought I'd share this scripture to from II Corinthians Chapter 3
2 Corinthians 3:13-15
We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at it while the radiance was fading away. But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts.
2nd Edit: GCSTroop, while the sin of homosexuality is covered in the New Testament, certainly the 'punishment' and 'judgment' are left to God.
Last edited by Alpha8207; 04-30-2007 at 12:21 PM..
For me, if gays were not targeting and doing their best to influence other people's children in the schools, many people could care less. No one should be free to introduce deviant or dangerous lifestyles to other people's children, be it homosexuality, drug use, prostitution, etc.
Skillful propaganda is being applied to very young impressionable children to normalize that which is abhorrent, dangerous and unnatural. Just like games and movies filled with gun play and violence, it normalizes and desensitizes children to the realities.
I am sure everyone has noticed that not one person has come forward to say anything positive about a book written by gays explaining what it means to be gay, “The Little Black Book, Q***r in the 21 Century”. This is a book that was fully endorsed by GLSEN. That should be telling in it’s self!
Citigirl, I agree with PART of your comment. I don't think that children should be desensitized to the lifestyle of homosexuals or violence or guns etc... But, on the same note, I don't think that homesexuals are deviants. Although, I myself am not gay there is no reason to "punish" someone who is. Many people in our community that would be considered "in the closet" provide a lot of great things to America. Doctors, Lawyers (ok so they might be deviant lol), businessmen, PRIESTS, actors, actresses, and numerous other high visibility individuals have come "out of the closet" in recent years. My question is. SO WHAT? Who cares what one person does in the privacy of his own home. Personally, I don't think homosexuality is a choice, and I firmly believe that people are born that way. Just as some people are born non-homosexuals. It's that simple.
My question is why do you feel that it is "abhorrent, dangerous, and unnatural"? My only sense of that, is the rate at which gay men contract AIDS at a higher rate than straight men. But, to be blunt, if I were to go have unprotected sex with a prostitute who shared dirty needles, I would probably be at a higher risk of contracting it than a gay man. But, that's a choice I would choose to make. Would you honestly care if I did that? Why does it involve you? Would you even care if I contracted AIDS as a result of that? My best bet would be no. The only reason people care so much about homosexuality is because we as a culture have programmed ourselves to believe it is "abhorrent, dangerous, and unnatural".
For me, if gays were not targeting and doing their best to influence other people's children in the schools, many people could care less. No one should be free to introduce deviant or dangerous lifestyles to other people's children, be it homosexuality, drug use, prostitution, etc.
Skillful propaganda is being applied to very young impressionable children to normalize that which is abhorrent, dangerous and unnatural. Just like games and movies filled with gun play and violence, it normalizes and desensitizes children to the realities.
I am sure everyone has noticed that not one person has come forward to say anything positive about a book written by gays explaining what it means to be gay, “The Little Black Book, Q***r in the 21 Century”. This is a book that was fully endorsed by GLSEN. That should be telling in it’s self!
OK, think about this for a second. Number 1.. why do you think homosexuality is a 'dangerous' behaviour?? Just because you don't agree with it? And also drugs... I have been to Amsterdam many times and I can tel you that Cannabis usage there has not affected people's health, nor has it increased crime levels. Education standards are also higher there than in many of the 'red' states. It was also recently voted the best place in the world to grow up!
Also, you live in a democracy, do you not?? I think it is more dangerous to preach religious merits in the classroom. How can you teach logic and rational thought along with talking snakes, people rising from the dead and to merely 'believe' in something with no evidence or justification?
Galileo (who was almost executed by Christians for discovering that the earth was not in fact centre of the universe) said "why would god give me reason, logic, and rationality and not expect me to use these traits'?
I don't mean to attack your beliefs, but just think about the fact that in a democracy EVERYONE should have the right to be who they want to be.. and have the ability to make that choice.
There is a clear seperation of church and state in the US and there is good reason for it.
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It is "abhorrent, dangerous, and unnatural" because human waste is filth and spreads disease (abhorrent & dangerous), because that muscle structure is designed to expel not enter (unnatural) and “The Little Black Book, Q***r in the 21 Century” will explain the rest.
It is very hard to find a delicate way to explain without the gross details. I believe God made the odor so repulsive as a big sign “NOT HERE, DANGER DANGER”. That's the best that I can do. The book is more explicit and it is written by gays about their lifestyle. I would think they would be the experts.
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"I don't mean to attack your beliefs, but"
If you believe something different then me I am fine with you voicing your opposition. I am against homosexuality and voice my opinion. Someone else may be for homosexuality and I expect them to voice their opinion. If we do not hear all sides, how can we ever be comfortable in our beliefs? I am not going to be offended if someone has an opposing view.
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End of the Law
