Brokeback Mountain and Wyoming (Buddhist, hell, Buddha, priests)
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I can believe what Downtownola is saying. He has experienced it personally himself. If you watched the Vice Presidential debate last night, you can see that even our state and national leaders tend to have not yet quite accepted the fact that there are those whose lifestyles differ from the "norm". I, myself, don't understand the gay lifestyle; of course, being straight I wouldn't understand, but I do accept those who are different than I am. At least the debate brought out the fact that rights & benefits should be available to same sex couples, although you could definitely "hear" between the lines that neither candidate really "accepts" the lifestyle. It has taken years for things to progress as far as they have and it will take many more for society to get the place where "everyone is created equal". But at least we're going in the right direction!
I can believe what Downtownola is saying. He has experienced it personally himself.
When we lived in Lander, my daughter's best friend was Matthew Shepherd's cousin, and the whole issue of intolerance came up in conversations often. I was surprised at the number of outwardly anti-gay sentiment...but this was ten years ago so I don't know how much, if anything, has changed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GEORGIAINMT
I, myself, don't understand the gay lifestyle; of course, being straight I wouldn't understand, but I do accept those who are different than I am
Perhaps because you are an educator that you have a more open mind about diversity? I know that while I am a conservative Christian, I do not agree with all the church/bible says about homosexuality, and tend to view the fear and bashing attitudes as ignorance more than anything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GEORGIAINMT
It has taken years for things to progress as far as they have and it will take many more for society to get the place where "everyone is created equal". But at least we're going in the right direction!
I do think that tv show's like Will and Grace, or movies such as Mrs Doubtfire with the portrayal of gay couples has helped change attitudes... but they are a long way from being equally accepted. I was glad to hear that both candidates support extending rights to gay couples, though.
I do think that tv show's like Will and Grace, or movies such as Mrs Doubtfire with the portrayal of gay couples has helped change attitudes... but they are a long way from being equally accepted. I was glad to hear that both candidates support extending rights to gay couples, though.
Unfortunately I don't think TV portrayal is the best medium for "tolerance", but rather a propoganda for siding with one faction or another. This thread of Brokeback Mountain is a great example. While there are those that can better associate with homosexuality and "come out of the closet" so to speak. Those that are homophobic to begin with, take cracks at anything Brokeback. It is only when we learn to treat people as individuals are we better able to break stereotypes and prejudice. I may be a straight man, but when I know that a gay man has the same mother that loves him, he becomes a brother to me.
As a free-thinker, I personally rebel against this agenda being railroaded. What a person does is his own business. But to re-characterize someones habit of unnatural sex acts as a "lifestyle," and legitemize it as "alternate" is in itself quite unnatural. Then, when people do not accept the thing foisted on them, they are called "hateful". If the independent-minded people of Wyoming do not embrace some PC agenda from Hollywood, then let them also not be moved by brainless leftist name-calling.
As a free-thinker, I personally rebel against this agenda being railroaded. What a person does is his own business. But to re-characterize someones habit of unnatural sex acts as a "lifestyle," and legitemize it as "alternate" is in itself quite unnatural. Then, when people do not accept the thing foisted on them, they are called "hateful". If the independent-minded people of Wyoming do not embrace some PC agenda from Hollywood, then let them also not be moved by brainless leftist name-calling.
I don't want to get into it with you since this is not the debate forum, but being gay is not a lifestyle. Being straight is not a lifestyle. In all my years, I've never known a single person who made a concious decision to be gay. If you don't beleive me, get to know a few gay people: it may open up your eyes.
Unfortunately I don't think TV portrayal is the best medium for "tolerance", but rather a propoganda for siding with one faction or another. This thread of Brokeback Mountain is a great example. While there are those that can better associate with homosexuality and "come out of the closet" so to speak. Those that are homophobic to begin with, take cracks at anything Brokeback. It is only when we learn to treat people as individuals are we better able to break stereotypes and prejudice. I may be a straight man, but when I know that a gay man has the same mother that loves him, he becomes a brother to me.
Not to do a debate here, but lets rise above PC rhetoric and challenge the cliches that our society has been inundated with. Non-thinking people may sanctimoniously throw out the label of "homophopbia" as if it trumps all reason, but thinking adults should be way above this. Lets consider this at the basic level. The thing that determines what a person is, is what he DOES. For example: a mechanic is a mechanic because he fixes things. Not because he was born a mechanic. What he does determines what he is. Likewise, nobody says that a man who cheats on his wife was born as an adulterer (and therefore did not choose to do the actions he does). No, he is what he is because of what he does. A thief is a thief because of what he does. An alcoholic is an alcoholic because he drinks. Sure, he MAY have a pre-disposition to be addicted to alcohol, but he would not be an alcoholic if he never drank. Yet, for the sake of PC, our society is supposed to acknowlege "gayness" as if it were NOT identified by what they do, but to be treated as another gender or race. Go to a gay pride parade sometime and WATCH the things they do in public. If it were not for the fear of being un-PC, you would call it for what it is. There are all kinds of things that people DO that have not achieve the political blindfold of homosexuality. What about beastiality? What makes somebody a beastialist? It is the things he does with animals, which are as unmentionable as what gays do. Why don't beastialists get the pass for being "born that way?" What about beastialist rights? Hey, they are downtrodden and unnaccepted by society too you know. (Solely because of what they DO BTW). Is someone going to call me a "beastiality phobe" because I mention this?
My whole point here is that it is OK if people in a state or area (such as Wyoming) tend to be less inundated or more resistant to an agenda being rammed down their throats. To smugly call their independent mindedness a "phobia" betrays shallow thinking. If there is anything that ever was an opiate of the masses, it is this politically correct bandwagon.
BTW, when PC advocates cannot answer dissenting oppinion, they attempt to shout it down. If they cannot do that, they demand immediate censorship. They cannot afford the competition of reason in a free arena of thought. Therefore, after having their say, they will surely demand my post to be deleted. However, if the powers-that-be will honorably resist this demand, nobody need to feel offended. The remedy to cleanse ones mind after being offended by sound reason is simply to dutifully repeat PC mantras and hurl anathemas at closed-minded homo-phobes.
Not to do a debate here, but lets rise above PC rhetoric and challenge the cliches that our society has been inundated with. Non-thinking people may sanctimoniously throw out the label of "homophopbia" as if it trumps all reason, but thinking adults should be way above this. Lets consider this at the basic level. The thing that determines what a person is, is what he DOES. For example: a mechanic is a mechanic because he fixes things. Not because he was born a mechanic. What he does determines what he is. Likewise, nobody says that a man who cheats on his wife was born as an adulterer (and therefore did not choose to do the actions he does). No, he is what he is because of what he does. A thief is a thief because of what he does. An alcoholic is an alcoholic because he drinks. Sure, he MAY have a pre-disposition to be addicted to alcohol, but he would not be an alcoholic if he never drank. Yet, for the sake of PC, our society is supposed to acknowlege "gayness" as if it were NOT identified by what they do, but to be treated as another gender or race. Go to a gay pride parade sometime and WATCH the things they do in public. If it were not for the fear of being un-PC, you would call it for what it is. There are all kinds of things that people DO that have not achieve the political blindfold of homosexuality. What about beastiality? What makes somebody a beastialist? It is the things he does with animals, which are as unmentionable as what gays do. Why don't beastialists get the pass for being "born that way?" What about beastialist rights? Hey, they are downtrodden and unnaccepted by society too you know. (Solely because of what they DO BTW). Is someone going to call me a "beastiality phobe" because I mention this?
My whole point here is that it is OK if people in a state or area (such as Wyoming) tend to be less inundated or more resistant to an agenda being rammed down their throats. To smugly call their independent mindedness a "phobia" betrays shallow thinking. If there is anything that ever was an opiate of the masses, it is this politically correct bandwagon.
BTW, when PC advocates cannot answer dissenting oppinion, they attempt to shout it down. If they cannot do that, they demand immediate censorship. They cannot afford the competition of reason in a free arena of thought. Therefore, after having their say, they will surely demand my post to be deleted. However, if the powers-that-be will honorably resist this demand, nobody need to feel offended. The remedy to cleanse ones mind after being offended by sound reason is simply to dutifully repeat PC mantras and hurl anathemas at closed-minded homo-phobes.
It's really amazing we still have people in society that think this way. Hatred becomes so rampant it literally takes on a life of its own. It goes to show the magnitude of difference between someone living in an academic area such as Boston, or in a "blue" state, verses someone living in an area void of culture, or even civilization for that matter. Society is not being "innundated" with gay characters, actually gays have been completely absent from any positive role models since the film industry began, and on those few occasion when a gay character did show up it was always completely negative.
Yes, let's determine what a person is? To equate someone who is homosexual with someone who is a mechanic? Homosexuality or Heterosexuality is not a "lifestyle" nor a "choice". A better example would be comparing someone who is "lefthanded" saying that person prefers a "lefthanded lifestyle;" that should give you an idea how not only riduculous the comparison is, but how severely the lack of understanding of human sexuality is in this case. The human sex drive is not a "choice" it is an "instinct" which is pre-programed, and people don't make decisions on there own as to what gender appeals to them. It is always amazing too, when people compare homosexuality to beastiality..it is unbelievable--this is when the severe hatred becomes so apparent. We are talking about human beings! not animals. But if you insist on it, actually heterosexuality is closer to beastiality because men and women are "different" from each other, same gender is equally the same. As far as gay pride goes, actually its the media that focuses on sensationalizing the event so skillfully. And while whe're pointing fingers, we in the gay community find it really disgusting to learn that 1 out of 3 women will be raped in her lifetime by a straight man. Statistically, rape is virtually non-existant within the gay community. Why is it that straight men use coercion against women when trying to acquire sex so often? Perhaps because it is somewhat of a missmatch?...and all the domestic violence, child abuse too. Anyways, to state gays are trying to "ram" their agenda down the throats of homophobes is ridiculous! For people it doesn't affect, it should be a non-issue. States which have passed gay rights/marriage laws have seen no change in their environments.
Last edited by 1979; 10-18-2008 at 01:50 PM..
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