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I really don't care, I do not believe in vicarious attainment anyway. Just found it interesting, how, seeking allies, Vatican twicked its own centuries lasting doctrine.
Oh well. I'll be liable for mine, everyone else liable for theirs.
Apparently not so long ago, Catholic Church issued a statement advising to stop converting Jews into Christianity. https://time.com/4145056/vactican-ca...-jews-convert/
Statement says that Jews are saved per default because god never revoked his covenant with Israel
Isn't it against the basic Christianity principle that salvation is possible ONLY through the Lord Jesus? It's a bit strange that same god has two different requirements?
Episcopal Church said the same thing almost 30 years ago when the SBC announced a campaign to convert Jews. (SBC has since apologized.)
The only salvation that exists is the one Jesus accomplished for us ALL! This is a non-issue, IMO. No one is beyond salvation because it has nothing to do with any one of us, period. It is finished. Jesus is the only way to God because He is the one who made His human Spirit identical to God's Holy Spirit connecting ALL human Spirits with God. No one can congratulate themselves on their salvation for ANY REASON. It makes no difference what religion or nonsense you believe about it. BTW you will receive exactly what you deserve based on what kind of Spirit you have BECOME no matter what you think. Just saying.
That may or may not be true of Jews TODAY, but Judaism certainly held the belief that Gehenna was a place of punishment. Simply read the entry on Gehenna in the Jewish Encyclopedia online. Here is the link,https://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/a...s/6558-gehenna
Furthermore, a reading of 1 Enoch, from which the lake of fire concept seems to be based in the NT indicates a belief in a place of punishment during 2nd Temple period Judaism.Beliefs tend to change over time and this is true for both Judaism and Christianity.
eternal hell and eternal torture are an invention of Christianity.
it has never been part of Judaism.
maximum 11-12 months to purify the soul
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
also in Judaism there is no "hell" there is not "eternal punishment." at all. for anyone.
"The Almighty's justice is not served by punishing someone forever. Justice means the punishment fits the crime. Since we are finite and our sins are finite, then our punishment or atonement must be finite. To take it one step further, the very connection with wrongdoing is an act of connecting to that which is temporary, physical, devoid of Godliness. On the other hand, when you do a mitzvah, you become one with God who is eternal. Evil and bad by definition do not exist forever; therefore the atonement period for wrongdoing is a fixed period of time.
"This temporary place of atonement is called Gehenom, and lasts for 11 or 12 months after someone passes away. Also, the suffering is not fire and brimstone, but rather something more like the embarrassment of standing before God, aware of your transgressions. What could be more painful than that? This embarrassment wipes away the barrier you created between you and God when you committed the transgression, and therefore is a great benefit. The atonement process is not so much a punishment as it is a spiritual washing machine to rid you of any blemishes you may have on your soul before you enter into oneness with God."
The only salvation that exists is the one Jesus accomplished for us ALL! This is a non-issue, IMO. No one is beyond salvation because it has nothing to do with any one of us, period. It is finished. Jesus is the only way to God because He is the one who made His human Spirit identical to God's Holy Spirit connecting ALL human Spirits with God. No one can congratulate themselves on their salvation for ANY REASON. It makes no difference what religion or nonsense you believe about it. BTW you will receive exactly what you deserve based on what kind of Spirit you have BECOME no matter what you think. Just saying.
The concept of Jesus being the only way to G-d is anathema to me. The idea that Jesus accomplished salvation for all is exactly what you posited it to be, your opinion. Others believe differently. Besides, you contradict yourself when you state that "you will receive exactly what you deserve based on what kind of Spirit you have BECOME". If that's true, what was Jesus' all-inclusive salvation for in the first place?
The only salvation that exists is the one Jesus accomplished for us ALL! This is a non-issue, IMO. No one is beyond salvation because it has nothing to do with any one of us, period. It is finished. Jesus is the only way to God because He is the one who made His human Spirit identical to God's Holy Spirit connecting ALL human Spirits with God. No one can congratulate themselves on their salvation for ANY REASON. It makes no difference what religion or nonsense you believe about it. BTW you will receive exactly what you deserve based on what kind of Spirit you have BECOME no matter what you think. Just saying.
Yes that’s all perfectly fine.
The original article suggests that there was no changeover from the old to the new covenant, and hence the Catholic Church has said that there should be no attempts at conversion of Jews to Catholicism or Christianity.
I might add that the Pope has also said the same thing about non-believers in general back in 2020, implicitly suggesting that Christianity is not necessary for one’s eternal salvation, and has said that there is no Hell.
Of course, these comments were not well received by Evangelical Christians:
oh, eternal punishment also existed in Greek mythology.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
Sheol is not punishment, it is "where the dead go" all the dead. it is related to death, not to punishment. There is no eternal punishment in Judaism.
the Greeks did have a place of eternal punishment, Tartarus.
For the Greeks, distinct from Hades was Tartarus. The Greeks had hellish eternal punishments in Tartarus, a space dedicated to the imprisonment and torment of mortals who had sinned. The tortures described include: Ixion condemned to spend forever spinning on a giant and fiery wheel. Tantalus condemned to an eternity of hunger and thirst, unable to reach either the apples or pool of water nearby. Sisyphus condemned to roll a boulder up a slope which forever rolled down forcing him to start again."
specifically asked about places of eternal punishment, such as hell in Crstnty and Islam. That concept does not exist in either Buddhism or Judaism. It does exist in Greek mythology.
I really don't care, I do not believe in vicarious attainment anyway. Just found it interesting, how, seeking allies, Vatican twicked its own centuries lasting doctrine.
Oh well. I'll be liable for mine, everyone else liable for theirs.
brings to mind that saying, the pit they dig for others, they fall into themselves.
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Salvation beyond Jesus
