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I'll try this.
Survival instinct < instinct of preservation< fear of death. Fear of death on the most subliminal level, without ANY cognisant reasoning, is the root cause of all of the above.
What you describe, my dear Tzaph, is the mind game, philosophising about death. I am referring to the instinct, that is not even noticed or thought of. It's instantaneous response.
I'll try another way. You may sit and ponder about how you fear no death because ......... Yet, the very moment you notice say a cobra getting close to you, you'll be 20 paces away from that place and only THEN you will return back to "there's no death and....".
Does it make sense?
I'll try this.
Survival instinct < instinct of preservation< fear of death. Fear of death on the most subliminal level, without ANY cognisant reasoning, is the root cause of all of the above.
What you describe, my dear Tzaph, is the mind game, philosophising about death. I am referring to the instinct, that is not even noticed or thought of. It's instantaneous response.
I'll try another way. You may sit and ponder about how you fear no death because ......... Yet, the very moment you notice say a cobra getting close to you, you'll be 20 paces away from that place and only THEN you will return back to "there's no death and....".
Does it make sense?
Very good post.
On a slightly different approach...I do think there is a difference between 'a fear of death' and 'a fear of how one will die'.
I'll try this.
Survival instinct < instinct of preservation< fear of death. Fear of death on the most subliminal level, without ANY cognisant reasoning, is the root cause of all of the above.
What you describe, my dear Tzaph, is the mind game, philosophising about death. I am referring to the instinct, that is not even noticed or thought of. It's instantaneous response.
I'll try another way. You may sit and ponder about how you fear no death because ......... Yet, the very moment you notice say a cobra getting close to you, you'll be 20 paces away from that place and only THEN you will return back to "there's no death and....".
Does it make sense?
but i have been in those situations, on several occasions.
and NO that was not my instantaneous response when faced with dangers and death nearby.
it was not fear. nor did fear kick in later.
including yes coming around a bend in the hiking trail and finding myself one step away (not 20 paces away, as in your imaginary example, but one step away in my actual real-life event) from an 8-foot long deadly poisonous snake, an 8-foot long Western diamond back rattlesnake. Very large, thick snake.
so for me NO it is not mental gymnastics or empty philosophy. it is lived experience. i agree yes we do things in the moment that totally bypass conscious thought process. Several in-the-moment responses have quite surprised me, what I did and felt in very dangerous circumstances.
but no, fear of death is not an instinct. survival yes. fear of death no.
they are not the same. not an idea or mind game for me. just what i have experienced.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 03-15-2024 at 06:53 PM..
You bring a child up teaching him hell fire and that everything you have ever done will be revealed, you are traumatizing a child. Christians talking about tribulation and how Satanic people are coming to kill them, that's traumatic.
We were taught that we would soon be tortured if we didnt deny Jesus.
Some kids really believe what you teach them, I never made plans because I expected the end of the world every year, what did I need plans for?
By the time I was 7 or 8, I had already excepted hell and figured there was no way out if it, I may as well kill myself because I walked around in fear knowing it was coming.
Kids should not be traumatized like that, and once they are brainwashed at such an earlie age, there ain't no fixing it.
I'm sorry Hannibal. At least I just had to accept I would be destroyed by God after being tortured by the government. That hellfire phobia sounds like a real b to overcome.
but i have been in those situations, on several occasions.
and NO that was not my instantaneous response when faced with dangers and death nearby.
it was not fear. nor did fear kick in later.
including yes coming around a bend in the hiking trail and finding myself one step away (not 20 paces away, as in your imaginary example, but one step away in my actual real-life event) from an 8-foot long deadly poisonous snake, an 8-foot long Western diamond back rattlesnake. Very large, thick snake.
so for me NO it is not mental gymnastics or empty philosophy. it is lived experience. i agree yes we do things in the moment that totally bypass conscious thought process. Several in-the-moment responses have quite surprised me, what I did and felt in very dangerous circumstances.
but no, fear of death is not an instinct. survival yes. fear of death no.
they are not the same. not an idea or mind game for me. just what i have experienced.
Great. To any rule is an exempt. By far, you are not humanity typical representative.
Though, there is a folklore wisdom, saying that only ........ are not afraid of the death.
Even those, who committed acts of great bravery on the battlefield, acknowledged, that they did fear death yet, had sense of duty overpowering them. Or, sense of sacrifice. Or, similar mental states. And, they all were in sort of altered state of mind.
But, hey. Good for you. You must have had very peaceful death in the previous existence.
Oh, ad hoc. Academician Amosov, famous USSR heart surgeon, was Minister of Health of the USSR for many years. VERY, VERY intelligent doctor and man. He once said that, before death, "protective reflexes" kick in in a human and they stop fearing death. He said - ask thousands of ECU doctors, they will confirm. MOF, my wife is ICU nurse since 1999, and she never ever witnessed anyone freaking out when dying. And many saw she. My point - yes, fear of death is fear of death. It's THERE.
I'm sorry Hannibal. At least I just had to accept I would be destroyed by God after being tortured by the government. That hellfire phobia sounds like a real b to overcome.
60's and 70's stuff mostly, Assemblies of God had seriously poor judgment, in those days each church was sent snuff films to scare the hell out of kids, those were the making of nightmares lasting for years, weird stuff, would have been rated R had it gone through channels.
60's and 70's stuff mostly, Assemblies of God had seriously poor judgment, in those days each church was sent snuff films to scare the hell out of kids, those were the making of nightmares lasting for years, weird stuff, would have been rated R had it gone through channels.
What I mostly remember from those days was the idea that the communists were going to take over and they were going to come knock on your door and ask you if you believed in Jesus.
If you said "yes" then you would get taken away to prison or reeducation camp.
If you said "no" then they wouldn't take you... but you had one foot in hell already as far as God was concerned.
All us kids said we would stand for Jesus. Probably because we figured prison couldn't be any worse than living at home.
What I mostly remember from those days was the idea that the communists were going to take over and they were going to come knock on your door and ask you if you believed in Jesus.
If you said "yes" then you would get taken away to prison or reeducation camp.
If you said "no" then they wouldn't take you... but you had one foot in hell already as far as God was concerned.
All us kids said we would stand for Jesus. Probably because we figured prison couldn't be any worse than living at home.
That's what the movies were, Asians rounding up Christian's in camps forcing bamboo sticks in their ears and other tortures, it was the bamboo in the ears that got me, blood gushing out, man I guess I was about 5, maybe 8.
On a slightly different approach...I do think there is a difference between 'a fear of death' and 'a fear of how one will die'.
True. I noticed months after 9/11 that I no longer had a fear of death. A couple of years later I got on a plane and this strange realization came over me: I was no longer afraid to fly, which I had been all my life. It was just gone.
But that's not to say that if someone pointed a gun at me or I was crossing tracks and saw a train bearing down I high speed that I wouldn't feel fear.
I was always afraid of death itself, mostly due to religious upbringing and its fear of God killing me because I said or did or thought "bad" things. Coming to a moment where it seemed quite possible I was actually facing the moment of my death cured me of the fear.
True. I noticed months after 9/11 that I no longer had a fear of death. A couple of years later I got on a plane and this strange realization came over me: I was no longer afraid to fly, which I had been all my life. It was just gone.
But that's not to say that if someone pointed a gun at me or I was crossing tracks and saw a train bearing down I high speed that I wouldn't feel fear.
I was always afraid of death itself, mostly due to religious upbringing and its fear of God killing me because I said or did or thought "bad" things. Coming to a moment where it seemed quite possible I was actually facing the moment of my death cured me of the fear.
i have to agree with this, based on my own experience. it was in facing death that dissolved fears for me.
for the first few decades of my life i was a very fearful timid person. i grew up in a rage-filled household inhabited by explosive adults, that was not safe for a small person. in my 20s and 30s and 40s i encountered a series of difficult circumstances that were frightening and kept going from bad to worse. i was afraid of driving, climbing ladders, afraid of people. Panic attacks, periods of agoraphobia, and PTSD. it is exhausting living in a state of constant anxiety. i basically lost everything and was shattered emotionally, financially, and physically. including being told i had only a few months left to live due to fast growing fast spreading growths in my chest in three areas. the doctor who told me this had me go get imaging immediately; when doctors saw the imaging they sent me immediately to a specialist for additional imaging. i remember being aware of "I have nothing left to lose."
so no, it's not due to a "peaceful" existence or "peace filled" past lives. for me it's been the opposite. it's due to how i've been changed by (and how I responded to) quite tumultuous circumstances that brought me to a place of utter calm.
i am still a cautious person. it is prudent to be safe, and the choices i make and how i live my life reflect that. i am not foolish or reckless. But the fear that pervaded everything about me for much of my life, is gone.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 03-16-2024 at 08:39 AM..
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