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If it's not too late to revisit the topic of the thread....
I am rewatching the VIKINGS on Netflix, even better the second time around. For those who aren't familiar with this series, there is a steady undercurrent of religion, contrasting the Norse gods (Odin, Thor, Freya, etc) and customs with the Christian god and beliefs they encounter after raiding Britain.
In today's episode, the king of medieval Northumbria is preparing for the next round of Viking invaders, imploring his council: "Who are these barbarians? Why have they come to torment us??" The head bishop explains knowingly that "they were sent by God to punish our people for their many sins and transgressions." [AKA, a sign!]
A second wiseman steps forward: "What if these Northmen weren't sent by God to plague us, but could it not rather be the work of the DEVIL?" [The crowd likes this explanation, if anything a more obvious sign!]
Whereupon a third councilor (let's call him Lord William, of Occam ) humbly suggests: "I put it to you that these pagans have come here on their own account, that they are neither of God nor Satan. They are just savage men looking for something to plunder." [Awwww, big letdown. Surely there must be a sign???]
People have been reading things into events for a long time. But the simple, straightforward explanation requiring fewest number of assumptions (and the least reliance on the supernatural) has always been the best starting point, if we're trying to understand what is actually going on.
If it's not too late to revisit the topic of the thread....
I am rewatching the VIKINGS on Netflix, even better the second time around. For those who aren't familiar with this series, there is a steady undercurrent of religion, contrasting the Norse gods (Odin, Thor, Freya, etc) and customs with the Christian god and beliefs they encounter after raiding Britain.
In today's episode, the king of medieval Northumbria is preparing for the next round of Viking invaders, imploring his council: "Who are these barbarians? Why have they come to torment us??" The head bishop explains knowingly that "they were sent by God to punish our people for their many sins and transgressions." [AKA, a sign!]
A second wiseman steps forward: "What if these Northmen weren't sent by God to plague us, but could it not rather be the work of the DEVIL?" [The crowd likes this explanation, if anything a more obvious sign!]
Whereupon a third councilor (let's call him Lord William, of Occam ) humbly suggests: "I put it to you that these pagans have come here on their own account, that they are neither of God nor Satan. They are just savage men looking for something to plunder." [Awwww, big letdown. Surely there must be a sign???]
People have been reading things into events for a long time. But the simple, straightforward explanation requiring fewest number of assumptions (and the least reliance on the supernatural) has always been the best starting point, if we're trying to understand what is actually going on.
If it's not too late to revisit the topic of the thread....
I am rewatching the VIKINGS on Netflix, even better the second time around. For those who aren't familiar with this series, there is a steady undercurrent of religion, contrasting the Norse gods (Odin, Thor, Freya, etc) and customs with the Christian god and beliefs they encounter after raiding Britain.
In today's episode, the king of medieval Northumbria is preparing for the next round of Viking invaders, imploring his council: "Who are these barbarians? Why have they come to torment us??" The head bishop explains knowingly that "they were sent by God to punish our people for their many sins and transgressions." [AKA, a sign!]
A second wiseman steps forward: "What if these Northmen weren't sent by God to plague us, but could it not rather be the work of the DEVIL?" [The crowd likes this explanation, if anything a more obvious sign!]
Whereupon a third councilor (let's call him Lord William, of Occam ) humbly suggests: "I put it to you that these pagans have come here on their own account, that they are neither of God nor Satan. They are just savage men looking for something to plunder." [Awwww, big letdown. Surely there must be a sign???]
People have been reading things into events for a long time. But the simple, straightforward explanation requiring fewest number of assumptions (and the least reliance on the supernatural) has always been the best starting point, if we're trying to understand what is actually going on.
We loved that show too and nice post! Well done...
I sometimes have to wonder whether people are really trying to understand what is actually going on or do they prefer to add a little back-story that suits them better than the plain truth? As always, depends on the person you ask. Some are okay with the simple truth and others just simply don't find the simple truth satisfying enough.
We loved that show too and nice post! Well done...
I sometimes have to wonder whether people are really trying to understand what is actually going on or do they prefer to add a little back-story that suits them better than the plain truth? As always, depends on the person you ask. Some are okay with the simple truth and others just simply don't find the simple truth satisfying enough.
I suspect it all depends on how simple one's mind is.
[quote=mordant;66661252]There can be quite the gap between one's carefully curated self-image and how one comes across in actual real-life practice. And yes it can be hard to tell if they are dissembling or really that dense.
I gave the example earlier today elsewhere of a remarkable TV interview I saw of some guy in a Texas border city practically moving himself to tears talking about the meaningful charity work he does delivering free school lunches to a poor neighborhood school full of mostly immigrants, then turned right around when asked by the interviewer if he favored border walls / closings and he said in so many words -- sure, he wants to keep those varmints out, protect our jobs, etc.
So was this guy really that dumb that he didn't realize the people he was swelled with compassion and empathy for were the same people he regards as excludable vermin? Or was he just lying? In this case I vote for stupid. Although another possibility is the difference in control. My oldest surviving brother was like this before retirement with his section 8 tenants, very tolerant of them and nice to them when he was in the position of power (renting them an apartment) but seeing the same sorts of people as an existential threat in a situation he's not in control of (the border crossings, job competition, perceived cultural dilution).
Mind you, this brother is, in 4, you prize the guy for for supporting suddenly he turned into a different guy?
Among all the worst of your families killed of maimed for life because they let offenders frre. An illegal alien can walk in house house you Bult yourself and take it, you would be more inclined to go to jail
How many tens of thousands have been stolen from you,
Probably ZILCHE right, your prolbally live in a gated community with no worrirs right? What us the total.cost,
you prize the guy for for supporting suddenly he turned into a different guy?
Among all the worst of your families killed of maimed for life because they let offenders frre. An illegal alien can walk in house house you Bult yourself and take it, you would be more inclined to go to jail
How many tens of thousands have been stolen from you,
Probably ZILCHE right, your prolbally live in a gated community with no worrirs right? What us the total.cost,
I have already debunked this nonsense elsewhere about immigrants creeping into people's houses and not being able to be removed elsewhere. An immigrant blogger trying to be provocative for clickbait made this claim and it's 100% false. Everywhere in the US it takes at least 10 years of occupancy to establish any sort of squatter's rights on the basis that the owner of the property allowed it for such a long time. In most states, it's 20 years. The ONLY partial exception is NY City, where landlords permitted the homeless to occupy their less desirable properties during the pandemic, and a law was passed that those people couldn't be made to leave later without going through the normal eviction process, which represents a procedural delay, not an inability to remove squatters. And in any case those where poor people generally, not immigrants specifically.
And no, I don't live in a gated community. What would that have to do with the actual point, which is the inability of this guy to understand that he's helping the very people he sees as a threat, and wants those same kinds of people jailed under deplorable conditions, and deported? It's incoherent, not to mention, immoral.
I have already debunked this nonsense elsewhere about immigrants creeping into people's houses and not being able to be removed elsewhere. An immigrant blogger trying to be provocative for clickbait made this claim and it's 100% false. Everywhere in the US it takes at least 10 years of occupancy to establish any sort of squatter's rights on the basis that the owner of the property allowed it for such a long time. In most states, it's 20 years. The ONLY partial exception is NY City, where landlords permitted the homeless to occupy their less desirable properties during the pandemic, and a law was passed that those people couldn't be made to leave later without going through the normal eviction process, which represents a procedural delay, not an inability to remove squatters. And in any case those where poor people generally, not immigrants specifically.
And no, I don't live in a gated community. What would that have to do with the actual point, which is the inability of this guy to understand that he's helping the very people he sees as a threat, and wants those same kinds of people jailed under deplorable conditions, and deported? It's incoherent, not to mention, immoral.
Getting back to the topic of this thread, I'd call this sort of thing a sign of the times, but then again this sort of phobia about immigrants (legal and/or illegal) is nothing new in this country. A bit ironic too, I think, that many of the people who are doing all they can to assist illegal aliens are evangelicals who are practicing the "Christian way" of treating neighbors and strangers kindly, with respect, in the way they believe Christ taught Christians to act.
A bit ironic too, I think, that many of the people who are doing all they can to assist illegal aliens are evangelicals who are practicing the "Christian way" of treating neighbors and strangers kindly, with respect, in the way they believe Christ taught Christians to act.
Some evangelicals, very few fundamentalists -- mostly Christians outside both of those bubbles. But yes not all Christians ignore Jesus' command to treat the strangers among you with kindness and dignity. It is possible to be a Christian, AND to believe the fact that immigrants are a distinct net benefit to any nation that receives them.
As the world devolves around us, of course, it will be harder to see that because there will be refugee crises that will make the current ones look like nothing at all.
You're right, though that this is not a new sentiment in the US. More broadly it is not just anti-immigration but isolationism, which kept us out of WW2 until we had our patooties handed to us at Pearl Harbor, and then we went crazy trying to deflect blame for our own wishful thinking on Japanese-Americans, etc.
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People have been reading things into events for a long time. But the simple, straightforward explanation requiring fewest number of assumptions (and the least reliance on the supernatural) has always been the best starting point, if we're trying to understand what is actually going on.
