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Now that I'm back, I see the video is unavailable, and it's hard for me to do something like you ask of me here...
To watch a video, stop, pause, start again to answer your questions is not quite as easy as answering my simple questions that are easy for you to read and respond to when you wish. As you wish. I could provide you many a video about what I think is worth viewing as well, and ask you to watch and address the points made in the video too, but instead I just try to keep it simple and quick with straight-forward Q&A tight is much easier to manage in the amount of time I usually devote to this forum and other threads along the way.
Not sure you answered all my questions either, rose, or this one question I keep asking. Now going back to my post #999. I double checked to see if you answered and maybe I missed it after my comment #999, but I'm still not finding your answer. Care to give it another go? Because I remain curious...
There is a second link beneath the video unavailable message, but if your time is short, you may find it annoying as the surgeon talks slowly, and takes about 8 minutes to describe the operation. It is only then that we get the method of getting the NDE, which one can legitimately question.
READ THE WHOLE CHAPTER... you're mentioned in verse 11
I would point out the irony of you making that claim, but I would prefer to discuss the evidence and not the usual ad hominems the religious here often resort to.
That is hardly a rational position to take all things considered. The impact and imprint of Jesus on human history is profound. You can take some niggling quibble with the "historicity" (precision, verifiability, and accuracy) of His recorded "story," but His historical reality and existence have been enduring and is undeniably significant.
No, it is a rational position to take considering the impact and imprint of Jesus on human history, while profound, is based on the allegorical fiction of Mark, all it's rewrites, and the many inventions from the second century AD and later sold by one particular sect pushing it's version of 'history while attacking every other version.
If you look at the rare source material from before Mark, we get a divine being or angel revealed only in (mostly) OT scripture or revelation, with one (Epistle to the Hebrews) specifically saying the one and only sacrifice of Jesus was in a heavenly temple not built by human hands. Maybe this high Christology was added to a historical person, but we do not know that. It could also be that the high Christology came first, and Mark invented the human Jesus as an allegory to sell Paul's teachings to rescue what may have been (according to Pliny the Younger) a dying religion.
If the historical personhood of Jesus is denied... I can go no further. How can an honest discussion occur with history deniers?
If you are going to ignore the earliest sources (about 1/3rd of the NT), then you are not doing history, you are denying it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_n_Tenn
There are over 30 independent accounts by 24 authors of Jesus as a living person of significance. I'm out.
If only you did have 30 independent accounts. You have one account, all of it's rewrites, later inventions added to histories, misrepresentations of people like Phlegon, and the occasional error such as the third mention in Josephus.
If the historical personhood of Jesus is denied... I can go no further. How can an honest discussion occur with history deniers?
There are over 30 independent accounts by 24 authors of Jesus as a living person of significance. I'm out.
Good — stay out — don’t waste your time here on this thread anymore.
The moderators here on this forum are quick To catch the slightest inaccuracy a Christian makes, but totally ignore the insults, ridicule, hate-mongering, lies, and inaccuracies of the atheists.
Even one of the moderators here called Christians smug-faced. Pheterol talks about Christians being lobotomized…..and NADA
I can PM you with some healthier spiritual forums
Hope you catch this post as mods won’t let it stay up…
Last edited by mountainrose; Yesterday at 08:03 AM..
I'm also interested, if you are so kind. I'll change the settings so I can receive PM, now.
Later edit: I sent you a friend request. I only communicate with my friends here on the forum, using PM.
Good — stay out — don’t waste your time here on this thread anymore.
The moderators here on this forum are quick To catch the slightest inaccuracy a Christian makes, but totally ignore the insults, ridicule, hate-mongering, lies, and inaccuracies of the atheists.
Quatsch, you simply could not handle having your assertions and anecdotes being questioned, nor could you answer any of the questions asked of you. I saw no atheist lie or tell any inaccuracies, although I did see you deny the science you appear to be ignorant about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainrose
Even one of the moderators here called Christians smug-faced.
No, they were talking about smug faced Christians, not all Christians.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainrose
Pheterol talks about Christians being lobotomized…..and NADA
Again, not all Christians, and I doubt he was being serious.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainrose
I can PM you with some healthier spiritual forums
This forum would be healthier if we had more intelligent, honest theists.
I figure mountainrose and farm108 may be onto something. Maybe it is best to leave the forum to all the Atheist's. All their comments are getting rather old. Move on to something new. My life is better when I stay off the internet. I'll just hold onto all the things I didn't get to share here. I have no need to contend with Atheist's, as that seems to be what they enjoy in their self-amusement.
You are still talking about popularity, not historicity.
The Jesus mythos has been enduringly popular but that does not speak to its veracity.
History is indeed not dependent on Bill "tides come in and tides go out" O'Reilly or on any other author. But the bar is low for historians (almost as low as for authors of speculative history). Historians are willing to form consensus around something that hasn't been disproven, even if inconclusive. Which is what we have with Jesus -- very paper thin attestations coming from a very few sources, coupled with the relevant research being largely funded by people with skin in the game.
There is a great book about what you touch upon here that I have mentioned in this forum before...
"Making History: The Storytellers Who Shaped the Past." – by Richard Cohen
A “supremely entertaining” (The New Yorker) exploration of who gets to record the world’s history—from Julius Caesar to William Shakespeare to Ken Burns—and how their biases influence our understanding about the past.
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