How much is enough (charity)? (Biblically, beliefs, belief, behavior)
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Problem with charity and handouts is, they tend to spoil the recipient. What is hard worked for, is valued. What is given, is not valued by the most with few exemptions. Good example is totally failing welfare system.
Charity is a very very fine art. As it is, also, an open gate for fraud and embezzlement.
Don't give fish
teach, how to catch fish.
Maybe watch South Park Night of The Walking Homeless. Very on spot and up to date.
Good point and I love South Park too
Two of our local Tampa area charities are involved in this. One operates a thrift store. People are taught how to prepare items for sale, work cash registers, balance books, clean and maintain the store. When they are ready, they are then hired by any of a thousand retailers here in town, in which case they move out of the shelter and start earning their keep, paying for their own food and expenses Part of living in the shelter system is the understanding that it is temporary while they are trained in basic job skills on which to build a future career.
The other focus more on homeless, not only feeding but in training basic life and social skills, mental health advocacy and such. Most of the checks I write go to these organizations.
My Late Uncle has a scholarship at a major university in his name. I contribute money to that as well.
Thing is , these charities have high ratings and accountability on Charity navigator and have transparency so I know what I donate is going to the program I am supporting.
My old lady once told me not to put $ in the offering plate at church (like I ever would anyway) The reason she said is that money tends to disappear, even in churches, and accountability and trust is a lot less than many people would suspect.
i was taught that the purpose and reason for giving charity
is to break and remedy our own selfishness and greed.
that has always made the most sense to me.
and yes that teaching is from the religion i follow.
It is a way to help us demonstrate our love for our fellow man, one way to help others . Altruism does in fact have a mutual benefit as it allows the recipient to benefit as well as the donor. Selfishness and greed are not healthy ideals in any way.
I find the view expressed in bold above a bit jarring.
since when is love "measurable" ?
and why must helping others be beneficial to you yourself?
because proclaiming "must be without selfishness" and then at the same time proclaiming "must benefit self" is jarring.
it smacks of tit for tat, keeping score, of not helping others unless you yourself get something out of it. that is the antithesis of "without selfishness." why insist that helping others must benefit you yourself? that is itself an act of selfishness to say any help extended to others must also benefit you yourself.
IT is the workings of the concept, Loving Thy Neighbor as Thyself.
Or what Mystic would probably say is "agape Love" if he responded to any of my posts anymore
It is an act/example of transcendence. And no, it does not require religion or theism to exist.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant
When it comes to random panhandlers it is VERY hard to ascertain whether they are on hard times or just looking for a fix, to be honest. Especially around our area, where it's a known fact that there are professional beggars. If I were giving more regularly it would be to the local orgs that actually clothe and house the homeless and know how to go about it, not piecemeal out on the street someplace. There's an excellent homeless shelter I would support.
We have not reached Debt free quite yet but are getting there.
As for Professional Panhandlers, yes Tampa have many They are supposed to have permits. But they are all over the place.
I do not give them anything.
My understanding is that this has become something of a business for some people, who gt together and decide who will stand at which corner for how long, then at night, they bring in all the $$ and enjoy it.
They do not pay taxes, they do not offer a service or product for the money which they take.
SO no, they are not a good investment. Registered charities, who offer services to the truly needy, like Meals on Wheels (which needs to be revamped in this town from the top down) would be a better choice, although not an ideal one.
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It is a way to help us demonstrate our love for our fellow man, one way to help others . Altruism does in fact have a mutual benefit as it allows the recipient to benefit as well as the donor. Selfishness and greed are not healthy ideals in any way.
yes i agree with bold above.
however to say as opening post did that helping others must benefit your own self, is itself an act of selfishness and greed. quite simply it is the selfish mindset of not helping others unless you get something out of it.
also kindness, dignity, love, respect, regard, helping others, those are not "measurable."
so still wondering why view expressed in the opening post insists that helping others "must be measurable?"
BUT I started thinking about first, helping our fellow human, and second, does our work really help?
I believe that participating in or volunteering for charities is as good as donating money. Of course, money needs to be donated to keep charities going, but there are many other types of charity work. The kind that requires rolling up your sleeves and getting to work. Thank you for all that you do LKC, it takes special people to get things done.
I have no money to give, so I'm giving my time, rides, attention and ears and making it NOT about me. Honestly, LKC, we are part of a the very few who donate time and money to help others. Everyone is looking to receive charity, not give it. I see what is going on with a lot of people in my area. The ones that have jobs have no money management skills. That needs to change.
Not saying they don't need financial help, because many people don't make enough money to make ends meet. But buying cigarettes and alcohol before paying the rent is not how to do it. Training is needed, mental and physical health assessed, and then getting the proper care for whatever the problem might be.
Quote:
Somehow, hate has become acceptable in our society.
It certainly has. Things are definitely worse than ever, but it's hasn't been good since the beginning of man. We just have more social media coverage these days, so it seems horrible. Actually, it is horrible.
Quote:
Our nation has become too divided. Not just politics, religions, race, but it seems that for the past 6 years or so as crime has risen, people have the new mentality of : "Don't like/agree/tolerate someone? Just kill them instead"
Brotherly love is gone, and the religious are just as much to blame as the non-religious. so what will it take to be nice humans? What example do we need to reestablish politeness, basic respect for human rights and brotherly love? I think that as a nation(USA), we are very mentally ill. Since insurance and the government has interfered with medical and psych treatments, we are seeing the results. But that is only part of it
To the bolded, I said something along these lines about global mental illness in another thread recently. No arguments about it, so I'm assuming that either it gave some food for thought or everyone agreed with me. Mental illness is running rampant. And yes, medical care is spotty. It's the caring part that's missing. I have some theories about why people are acting so insane but I'll save those for later.
I really hate to say this but you asked what will it take to be nice humans? I'm afraid there is nothing, it's all up to the individual. If we all worked on ourselves rather than worry about judging, worrying about what other folks are doing and how awful they are, then things would slowly start coming together. But I don't have much hope for the human race right now.
yes i agree with bold above.
however to say as opening post did that helping others must benefit your own self, is itself an act of selfishness and greed. quite simply it is the selfish mindset of not helping others unless you get something out of it.
also kindness, dignity, love, respect, regard, helping others, those are not "measurable."
so still wondering why view expressed in the opening post insists that helping others "must be measurable?"
Don't you EVER have anything NICE to say? That's what LKC's post is about, peace, being nice, being kind, being selfless and what he is saying about feeling good after helping is just an added bonus, it has nothing to do with selfishness. Obviously you missed the part about being nice and kind.
It has to start with you. YOU are part of the problem we are discussing.
if the thread topic and OP is exhorting urging and extolling others to extend and engage in loving kindness, then subsequently using the phrase "my old lady" is itself a derogatory phrase that is loaded with disrespect and disregard. Use of that phrase in a public forum for all to read and see is offensive and does NOT convey respect and regard and kindness.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 07-16-2023 at 09:38 AM..
when someone is patting themself on the back regarding their own charitable works, and urging others to extend kindness love helping, it is also quite jarring to hear them use the phrase "my old lady." That in itself is an offensive phrase that is loaded with disrespect and disregard. Use of that phrase in a public forum for all to read and see does NOT convey respect and regard and kindness, which the OP is purportedly extolling exhorting and urging on others.
[comment above is addressing and discussing the behavior, not any individual person posting on CD]
With all the things happening to people around the world, you're nagging about the phrase "my old lady". Oh my.
When I do give, I don't think about how the money will be used once it leaves my hands. So it is not how much that is given that determines how charitable I am. Instead, it is the lack of strings attached.
My personal opinion is that good infrastructure is the best thing a society can pour money into especially after coming back from a trip through central and northern Europe. The countries I am specifically referring to are Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Germany, Austria, and Switzerland.
post above makes an excellent point. regarding bold above, yes bingo. i agree.
although there is for me also (in the religion i follow) a formula that instructs how much to give also, which is a % of my income. This is not optional, it is required. It is an obligation and responsibility.
Commenting only on first part of post above, leaving second part for others to discuss.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 07-16-2023 at 10:13 AM..
I solve this problem by spending. I figure when I buy beer the CEO will get some of my money and give it on "charity". The stock holders will get some of my money and donate it to charity. And the poor guys who actually brew the beer will take some of my money and buy one of their buddies a new pool cue.
Gives me a warm feeling to realize how far and wide my money has gone in the name of "charity".
Problem with charity and handouts is, they tend to spoil the recipient. What is hard worked for, is valued. What is given, is not valued by the most with few exemptions. Good example is totally failing welfare system.
Charity is a very very fine art. As it is, also, an open gate for fraud and embezzlement.
Don't give fish
teach, how to catch fish.
Maybe watch South Park Night of The Walking Homeless. Very on spot and up to date.
I disagree with some of this.
It's much easier to help someone if that person isn't hungry. Feed them first, then offer help with other things. Basic needs must be met. The majority of people seeking charity are not doing so because they want to. They have hit stumbling blocks in their lives and need some temporary assistance.
I don't know what to do with the people that are unwilling to accept the conditions that come with the help being offered. For example, the homeless shelters near where I live do not allow residents to use alcohol or drugs while they are in the facility. I don't know how to help those who won't conform the the rules of the charity, but they still need basic things like food and shelter.
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