Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Such a statement requires ignoring glaring incoherence, obvious contradictions, and seemingly irreconcilable conflicts by simply asserting there are none (I assume because the rishis said so).
but there are no contradictions for me. because i have verified for myself what the sages (from various paths) have put forth. knowledge and learning are part of this. but going within, doing the practices, has been for me the greater part, in validating what is put forth.
so no, it is not "dismissed," just understood in a way that makes sense to me.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 02-20-2023 at 07:30 PM..
I don't. In my view, our human intellect is merely an "embryonic growth component" of the ONE AND ONLY LIVING Spirit (Oneness) that is our Reality. Its immaturity is the reason for its confused status and lack of "all knowledge" that is its birthright and ultimate fate. Unending and pointless samsara makes no sense to me whatsoever.
samsara is not unending. when we recognize the way out, and when we release that which we are attached to, it ends. Because it has served its purpose. I don't consider it pointless to recognize divinity, to recognize Self.
I understand that. But that does NOT mean that the rishis accurately discerned all aspects of that knowledge through meditation alone. That is an unreasonable expectation, IMO.
Not meditation alone. Minute and detailed observation, reasoning, and thought.
samsara is not unending. when we recognize the way out, and when we release that which we are attached to, it ends. Because it has served its purpose. I don't consider it pointless to recognize divinity, to recognize Self.
What, exactly, needs to recognize self if we ARE the self/awareness itself?
recognizing what we are not.
not the body, not the mind, not the intellect, not the personality, not our bank account or cars or job, not the diplomas or awards or children or family, not the moods.
what continues after the body is gone.
what existed before the body was born.
that. I AM that.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 02-20-2023 at 09:24 PM..
recognizing what we are not.
not the body, not the mind, not the intellect, not the personality, not our bank account or cars or job, not the diplomas or awards or children or family, not the moods.
what continues after the body is gone.
what existed before the body was born.
that. I AM that.
you are not paying close enough attention to the question. What is it that has to learn what it is? You told me what it is not that is not the answer to the question. What existed before knows what it is. What has to learn what it is?
you are not paying close enough attention to the question. What is it that has to learn what it is? You told me what it is not that is not the answer to the question. What existed before knows what it is. What has to learn what it is?
the human ego which is enamored of and attached to and identifies with and is distracted by all the false identities which it clings to and chatters on about: the body, the intellect, the fame, the cars, the house, the finances, the moods, the trauma, the job, the career, the thoughts, the emotions, the drama, the chatter, the race, the gender, the culture, the degrees, the title. none of that is who we are.
personality and ego are finite and temporary, and cling to the finite and temporary. bling. fool's gold.
spirit is eternal and clings to nothing. it just is. I AM that.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 02-20-2023 at 11:38 PM..
What, exactly, needs to recognize self if we ARE the self/awareness itself?
Your ego, which makes you believe it is the doer, thinker, and feeler. Ego is a creation of the mind and intellect that comes into existence from the illumination of the Self. It has no existence of its own and dissolves into the Self upon recognition of the truth.
Your ego, which makes you believe it is the doer, thinker, and feeler. Ego is a creation of the mind and intellect that comes into existence from the illumination of the Self. It has no existence of its own and dissolves into the Self upon recognition of the truth.
Sorry, CB, but that has always seemed very dualist to me. How can the All-knowing Oneness EVER illuminate part of itself that is NOT knowing? That issue is resolved by my view that it is the "growing component" that has to fully mature. The reasoning that asserts the timeless, unchanging aspect is unconvincing because it makes no sense to have change ANYWHERE in an unchanging Oneness, IMO. YMMV.
Sorry, CB, but that has always seemed very dualist to me. How can the All-knowing Oneness EVER illuminate part of itself that is NOT knowing? That issue is resolved by my view that it is the "growing component" that has to fully mature. The reasoning that asserts the timeless, unchanging aspect is unconvincing because it makes no sense to have change ANYWHERE in an unchanging Oneness, IMO. YMMV.
Brhman is at the macro lever, cosmic consciousness. It is uncreated and limitless, transcends space and time, is everywhere, no place it does not exist. The body is at the world level, the fructification of karma, and illuminated by the same Brhman. It is called atman at the micro level, just as the ocean has different names at different levels, waves, foam, bubbles. All ocean.
Brhman at the Atman level does not illuminate itself. Nothing can illuminate it, it is self illumined. Atman illuminates the “inner body “ made of organs of perception and the mind and the intellect. By its illumination the mind and intellect form the ego, the doer.
Brhman is atman is our true nature. When that recognition takes place, the ego that is the source of struggle and suffering dissolves and resolves into Atman, Brhman. This is Oneness, this is non-dualism. It is the intellectual and mindful recognition, not anything else.
Last edited by mensaguy; 02-21-2023 at 04:40 PM..
Reason: Fixed quote. Bold quotes don't parse.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
