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science and the intellect are not the path, yardstick, benchmark, measure or indicator of divinity.
it is not an intellectual exercise. nor is it a scientific explanation. neither of those are theology, neither of those are adequate to address divinity.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 02-19-2023 at 12:05 PM..
My Dear Friends Tzaph and CB, we are at an impasse. I cannot abandon my intellect to accept what is patently absurd to it. I have no desire to change your view and mine is completely consistent with BOTH my experiences and understanding of Oneness and science. Since you do not believe that is necessary (or possible), there can be no agreement about the Oneness other than it is true. Peace and Namaste (For those not familiar with the spiritual meaning - “The Divine within me bows to the same Divine within you.” )
My Dear Friends Tzaph and CB, we are at an impasse. I cannot abandon my intellect to accept what is patently absurd to it. I have no desire to change your view and mine is completely consistent with BOTH my experiences and understanding of Oneness and science. Since you do not believe that is necessary (or possible), there can be no agreement about the Oneness other than it is true. Peace and Namaste (For those not familiar with the spiritual meaning - “The Divine within me bows to the same Divine within you.” )
Namaste Mystic. Thank you for helping me clarify my own thoughts through these discussions, and keeping them productive and pleasant. That we agree or disagree is a very minor point.
Joel Osteen just gave a whole sermon on this subject and folks just Loved it, he called it"Just declare it".
Folks were declaring all sorts of stuff.
It's totally not Biblical. Folks love Joel and his constant Happy Talk. God can do everything according to Joel except give him money. This his congregation must do and they give him plenty. Osteen Ministry is a family run business and he pulls in 5o Million plus a year.
Joel Osteen just gave a whole sermon on this subject and folks just Loved it, he called it"Just declare it".
Folks were declaring all sorts of stuff. It's totally not Biblical. Folks love Joel and his constant Happy Talk. God can do everything according to Joel except give him money. This his congregation must do and they give him plenty. Osteen Ministry is a family run business and he pulls in 5o Million plus a year.
I may be wrong but I think I heard that Osteen gave his ^ above ^ bad advice to Donald Trump.
Added: ''call those things which are not as though they were” - in Romans 14?
Kinda like Affirmations ---I used to say one, but don't need to anymore...it worked that well...it was
during an economic downturn. "Money comes easily to me and often. Money comes easily to me and often."
And very shortly after it did and still does many yrs later. $1000s at a time for no reason, without asking.
It was a way to get my mind off of, "HOW am I gonna pay all these bills!?" I was self-employed, you see.
That downturn was after Katrina, I rem.
Last edited by Miss Hepburn; 02-20-2023 at 11:30 AM..
My Dear Friends Tzaph and CB, we are at an impasse. I cannot abandon my intellect to accept what is patently absurd to it. I have no desire to change your view and mine is completely consistent with BOTH my experiences and understanding of Oneness and science. Since you do not believe that is necessary (or possible), there can be no agreement about the Oneness other than it is true. Peace and Namaste (For those not familiar with the spiritual meaning - “The Divine within me bows to the same Divine within you.” )
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008
Namaste Mystic. Thank you for helping me clarify my own thoughts through these discussions, and keeping them productive and pleasant. That we agree or disagree is a very minor point.
Namste CB. I do not and did not ever mean to disparage the rishis. They were part of my path through the forest of confusion during the decades after my experience. My favorite philosopher is Alfred North Whitehead and I agree with this quote from Tzaph.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
this quote is not from, but about:
"The vastest knowledge of today cannot transcend the buddhi of the Rishis in ancient India; and science in its most advanced stage now is closer to Vedanta than ever before."
---from Alfred Whitehead (1861-1947), a British philosopher and mathematician
Whitehead's distinction between the "creative advance of nature" and our measured and experienced "time" was central to my Synthesis of science and theology. My extensive efforts took me far beyond Whitehead's knowledge of the advanced stage of science and enabled me to reconcile the misunderstanding of the rishis' ideation. Our measured and experienced "time" exists only because our human consciousness needs to form at the speed of light (as quanta) within Whitehead's "creative advance of nature." If there were no "creative advances," we would not experience our "time" at all. This is why I reject the timeless and static nature of Reality.
"
The lag between our seemingly "instantaneous" macro-level human awareness and its formation within the "creative advance" and the "delayed playback" aspect of our awareness results from that necessity. This lag at the speed of light is the reason the speed of light is constant in our macro-level measurements and is the source of the strange "time dilation" in our mathematical modeling. If there were no "creative advances" (as posited by the rishis) we would never experience our measured "time" or any other time. The eternal awareness of Oneness exists in Whitehead's "creative advance of nature," which IS the "eternal Life" of our Creator that we were promised by Jesus, IMO. YMMV.
science increasingly questions whether time exists or is an illusion.
"There is no widespread consensus among physicists on time," says theoretical physicist Carlos Rovelli.
this is relevant to theology because it is recognized across many paths of religion and spirituality.
there is no need to delve into the minutiae of math and science in this thread or in this section of the forum because, well, that is not necessary for discussing theology. that which is outside of time (spirit, divinity) is not affected by or subject to or governed by physics. because, well, spirit is not physical. science has many systems. but it is not equipped to measure, define, or deal with the areas of theology which address the non-physical, spirit, and divinity.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 02-20-2023 at 05:04 PM..
Namste CB. I do not and did not ever mean to disparage the rishis. They were part of my path through the forest of confusion during the decades after my experience. My favorite philosopher is Alfred North Whitehead and I agree with this quote from Tzaph.
Whitehead's distinction between the "creative advance of nature" and our measured and experienced "time" was central to my Synthesis of science and theology. My extensive efforts took me far beyond Whitehead's knowledge of the advanced stage of science and enabled me to reconcile the misunderstanding of the rishis' ideation. Our measured and experienced "time" exists only because our human consciousness needs to form at the speed of light (as quanta) within Whitehead's "creative advance of nature." If there were no "creative advances," we would not experience our "time" at all. This is why I reject the timeless and static nature of Reality.
"
The lag between our seemingly "instantaneous" macro-level human awareness and its formation within the "creative advance" and the "delayed playback" aspect of our awareness results from that necessity. This lag at the speed of light is the reason the speed of light is constant in our macro-level measurements and is the source of the strange "time dilation" in our mathematical modeling. If there were no "creative advances" (as posited by the rishis) we would never experience our measured "time" or any other time. The eternal awareness of Oneness exists in Whitehead's "creative advance of nature," which IS the "eternal Life" of our Creator that we were promised by Jesus, IMO. YMMV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
science increasingly questions whether time exists or is an illusion.
"There is no widespread consensus among physicists on time," says theoretical physicist Carlos Rovelli.
this is relevant to theology because it is recognized across many paths of religion and spirituality.
there is no need to delve into the minutiae of math and science because, well, that is not theology.
The absolute separation and distinction in the bold is the REASON there has been no widespread consensus on time or any other meaningful and serious attempt to reconcile science and theology, Tzaph. Whitehead's intuition, the "time dilation conundrum, and my meaningful and serious efforts strongly suggest it is an outmoded and counterproductive attitude that I hope will be reconsidered in the future.
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