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As I commented before, a few too many people really don't know much about alcoholism. They base their opinions on limited life experience rather than learn what they should from websites like WebMD, the Mayo Clinic and/or the professionals who actually know what they're talking about. Know better like you seem to know.
Very true what you write, including the how and why alcoholism is treated as a disease. Also more commonly referred to in professional circles as an Alcohol Abuse Disorder.
I have heard, actually in these forums, the atheist argument against AA for two reasons. One is AA’s 12 steps and ceding control to a Higher Power, and the other is the treating of alcoholism as a disease. Whatever works to help one recover is fine with me, and all power to AA for finding spirituality as a cure.
I have heard, actually in these forums, the atheist argument against AA for two reasons. One is AA’s 12 steps and ceding control to a Higher Power, and the other is the treating of alcoholism as a disease. Whatever works to help one recover is fine with me, and all power to AA for finding spirituality as a cure.
Cure for alcoholism through spirituality uses no drugs that have adverse side effects on the body. The atheist argument against spirituality would be the poisoning of the mind.
Cure for alcoholism through spirituality uses no drugs that have adverse side effects on the body. The atheist argument against spirituality would be the poisoning of the mind.
Odd, isn't it. When we state an opinion you label it an "attack". But then you feel free to "attack" (by your definition) us. Ever hear of the Golden Rule...or is that another thing you don't think about?
Odd, isn't it. When we state an opinion you label it an "attack". But then you feel free to "attack" (by your definition) us. Ever hear of the Golden Rule...or is that another thing you don't think about?
Also, atheists are hardly barred from 12-step programs. One does not need to believe in a literal higher power to have the serenity to accept things one cannot change, the courage to make changes within one’s own control, and the wisdom to know the difference. Some meetings have cultures where belief in a higher power is paramount to recovery. Many meetings do not have such overbearing expectations.
I know that some people are critical of 12-step programs for a whole host of reasons (most of which have nothing to do with religion and spirituality). I have no dog in that fight, and I’m certainly thrilled for the people in my life who have found long-term success through these programs.
My wife has a lot of addiction in her father’s family (of the four siblings, only one has lived a life free of substance abuse). It’s interesting because I don’t think her paternal grandparents ever had those problems, although at least one great-grandfather on that side was an alcoholic.
Genetics, environment, life experiences. A whole number of things can influence one’s predisposition to addictive behaviors. Apart from ethnic and religious groups that abstain from alcohol entirely, Jews (of all levels of observance, including none at all) are the least likely to develop alcoholism, although Jews are not immune from alcoholism and there are certainly Jewish alcoholics. While I don’t know if I’d call him an alcoholic, my father has developed some problematic drinking habits in his later years.
Cure for alcoholism through spirituality uses no drugs that have adverse side effects on the body. The atheist argument against spirituality would be the poisoning of the mind.
I did not mean to suggest AA IS ALL SPIRITUALITY, only that it is an important component in aiding recovery. Some alcoholics do require medications to help with underlying problems of anxiety and paranoia which made them dependent on alcohol in the first place.
Also, atheists are hardly barred from 12-step programs. One does not need to believe in a literal higher power to have the serenity to accept things one cannot change, the courage to make changes within one’s own control, and the wisdom to know the difference. Some meetings have cultures where belief in a higher power is paramount to recovery. Many meetings do not have such overbearing expectations.
I know that some people are critical of 12-step programs for a whole host of reasons (most of which have nothing to do with religion and spirituality). I have no dog in that fight, and I’m certainly thrilled for the people in my life who have found long-term success through these programs.
My wife has a lot of addiction in her father’s family (of the four siblings, only one has lived a life free of substance abuse). It’s interesting because I don’t think her paternal grandparents ever had those problems, although at least one great-grandfather on that side was an alcoholic.
Genetics, environment, life experiences. A whole number of things can influence one’s predisposition to addictive behaviors. Apart from ethnic and religious groups that abstain from alcohol entirely, Jews (of all levels of observance, including none at all) are the least likely to develop alcoholism, although Jews are not immune from alcoholism and there are certainly Jewish alcoholics. While I don’t know if I’d call him an alcoholic, my father has developed some problematic drinking habits in his later years.
What do you mean by problematic drinking habits? None of my drinking habits had been problematic. For example I always have a beer when I cook. It's a habit I picked up from a chef. He ran this Italian restaurant, a pretty chic place, with his Chinese girlfriend in Kuala Lumpur. I would watch him come to the bar, get himself a beer from the tap, and head back to his open kitchen visible from the bar, and do his stuff in there. I have been habitually opening a beer every evening when I am in the kitchen. Peroni or German beer. Used to drink American but my mother stopped me. "Stop drinking that slop. It has chemicals!" Sometime I wonder if L8 is right: no free will, no character.
What do you mean by problematic drinking habits? None of my drinking habits had been problematic. For example I always have a beer when I cook. It's a habit I picked up from a chef. He ran this Italian restaurant, a pretty chic place, with his Chinese girlfriend in Kuala Lumpur. I would watch him come to the bar, get himself a beer from the tap, and head back to his open kitchen visible from the bar, and do his stuff in there. I have been habitually opening a beer every evening when I am in the kitchen. Peroni or German beer. Used to drink American but my mother stopped me. "Stop drinking that slop. It has chemicals!" Sometime I wonder if L8 is right: no free will, no character.
I mean that my father has taken to drinking a whole bottle of wine, by himself, every night. That’s not healthy. I never said your (or anyone else’s) drinking habits were problematic.
I mean that my father has taken to drinking a whole bottle of wine, by himself, every night. That’s not healthy. I never said your (or anyone else’s) drinking habits were problematic.
Well, if he's "habitually" (his words) drinking, then it is a problem.
I did not mean to suggest AA IS ALL SPIRITUALITY, only that it is an important component in aiding recovery. Some alcoholics do require medications to help with underlying problems of anxiety and paranoia which made them dependent on alcohol in the first place.
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