Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Just wondering why you would have to pray - God knows everything - why would I presume to tell "him" what to do? I am interested in the logic of prayer to a all-knowing deity. Why would a mere mortal be directing things?
No matter what the people of this world do to me, they cannot take prayer away from me...
...God said to Cain; Listen, the blood of Abel cries out from the ground. I hear Abel crying out for mercy upon his brother Cain.
No matter what the people of this world do to me, they cannot take prayer away from me...
...God said to Cain; Listen, the blood of Abel cries out from the ground. I hear Abel crying out for mercy upon his brother Cain.
Indeed, and note that Abel is already dead so his blood crying out is generally understood as a demand for vengeance (what it's on about isn't really in the text; one translation adds "for revenge", I don't see any mentioning "mercy").
If Abel thought being a Good Boy and pleasing to god was any protection, he was very much mistaken on that count. At a minimum, even Christians agree that the answer to all prayers of request isn't "yes". And then you run into this conundrum: if god answers yes, no or later ... how is that even an answer? Whatever happens is the answer, and you're left with ... whatever happens. Even if you get a hoped-for "answer", there's no way to demonstrate it was anything beyond random happenstance, since good things sometimes happen to bad people, and vice versa.
If I were to somehow become a believer again, I would be in the minority camp that says prayer isn't a request mechanism, and that it's all about submitting to god's will / Mysterious Ways, pleasant, tragic or otherwise.
I don't know. "most people", yes. But I have known some people firmly believe a miracle will happen right up until they or a relative dies.
Yes, I have known--or more likely, known OF--people like this, too. And of course we've all heard of the extreme examples wherein people let children or other families members die without medical treatment because God was going to heal them.
Gods are not physical beings.
They do not maintain their existence off food and drink.
They do so off the energy of those, who believe in them.
A way to transfer that energy is prayer. Prayer is feed for god. No matter, what kind, one of seven or seventy or seven hundred. It is feeding god with your energy. Hence, "you shall have no other gods before me, as I am a jealous god". Why share food with anything else?
The same reason I call my earthly father…to talk, ask for help, seek advice, thank him for being a good father and tell him I love him. My earthly father enjoys hearing from me and I enjoy hearing from my kids.
And how does that work, if your heavenly father already knows everything anyway, even things, so deeply hidden inside of you, that even you don't know them?
And how does that work, if your heavenly father already knows everything anyway, even things, so deeply hidden inside of you, that even you don't know them?
We pray because God tells us to pray. God doesn't need us to pray, our prayers don't change God, he's already foreordained everything that will happen. We're the ones who need it. Our prayers change us.
No matter what the people of this world do to me, they cannot take prayer away from me...
...God said to Cain; Listen, the blood of Abel cries out from the ground. I hear Abel crying out for mercy upon his brother Cain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant
Indeed, and note that Abel is already dead so his blood crying out is generally understood as a demand for vengeance (what it's on about isn't really in the text; one translation adds "for revenge", I don't see any mentioning "mercy").
Are you saying Cain was not shown mercy? After Cain was given his punishment, God put a mark on Cain so that others would not take out vengeance on him and kill him. And God said if anyone kills Cain, he will suffer vengeance seven times over.
Which is why I said that I hear Abel crying out for mercy upon his brother Cain. As that is in context with what followed.
Just wondering why you would have to pray - God knows everything - why would I presume to tell "him" what to do? I am interested in the logic of prayer to a all-knowing deity. Why would a mere mortal be directing things?
I don't view prayer as "telling God what to do". That would be absurd, actually.
Just wondering why you would have to pray - God knows everything - why would I presume to tell "him" what to do? I am interested in the logic of prayer to a all-knowing deity. Why would a mere mortal be directing things?
Because he commands it, and he wants us to. He wants us to be his people and he will be our God. There should be a relationship there.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
