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My 2 cents worth. I am not impressed by the view of the religious that I need to be saved. I do not believe in their god, their sin, their idea of salvation or the punishments or at least forfeit of certain benefits for those who are not 'saved' which, so far as I can tell, involves declaration of belief in something that does not merit belief.
I also note that these people are also regarded as unsaved to a greater of lesser degree according to different religious or doctrinal ideas or indeed certain details, manners and shibboleths of interpretation in just what or how one has to believe in order to merit salvation.
In the face of such confusion, I remain -as I say - unimpressed and moreover believe on my own account that the various brands of 'saved' persons are also in need of being saved from what they believe saved them.
Gods global plan of salvation is to offer us a method to be reconciled back to God so we know we are forgiven and so we can know for sure that our next eternal residence will be with God and not eternally apart from God .
Gods Plan: (According to the Bible)
1. Create humans with a mind to think and reason, but with no sense of what's right or wrong.
2. Tempt Eve with that knowledge, though she has no concept that it's wrong to disobey God.
3. Punish her and all of her descendents for over 4000 years, requiring blood sacrifices for atonement.
4. Decides to forgive all of humanity for a sin committed 4000 years earlier by sending his son to be tortured and murdered.
5. Then, even though we have no knowledge of this person or any solid evidence that he ever existed, if we don't love him, we are punished with everlasting fire.
This doesn't seem to be a plan that should be believed, or a reason to minimize this life we have, in search of some mystic reward afterward.
My religious roomate, who attends a whole bunch of bible studies and other religious get togethers, left out a piece of paper that reads...
Name five people you peraonally know are unsaved.
I was the second one listed.
Firstly, unsaved from what? God? Death? The "afterlife"...whatever that is?
Secondly, at what point did it become acceptable to discuss my religious convictions (of which I have little/any) when I'm not even there to defend them? It's like I'm being judged by a group of people who hardly know me! Pretentious much?
Thirdly, if they must know, I'm not anti god. I'm anti humans trying to understand god. He/She/It is beyond my understanding. If he/she/it makes everything the way it is, I do not understand his/her/its rational. I gave up trying to. I've made peace with just living a moral life, as much as I know how, (with godly ideas mixed in), and hoping that that will be enough. If I did my best, how can god fault me for that?
Maybe I didn't do his best...but he/she/it is god after all...how could I have been expected to?
i suggest you change your roommate I personally don't believe in roommates
I look at this in two ways. Based on what I'm reading, he hasn't personally said anything to you yet. The only way you found out about this was because he left the piece of paper out. Now, was that piece of paper left out in a careless "Oops, I left that out," accidental manner or was it left out like "Oh, how silly of me to have left that out for you, but since you saw it then we should probably discuss it," purposeful kind of manner?
Think if you had a roommate that had a list of five people he'd like to consentingly sodomize - I think the analogies are equivalent in this case. It's one thing if he privately fantasizes about you, knows what his boundaries are, and does his best to keep them to himself. You're none the wiser and he's staying within his boundaries.
One day you wake up, need to brush your teeth and realize you ran out of toothpaste. You walk over to his room in hopes that he has some toothpaste and find him sodomizing an inflatable sheep with your picture attached to the face of it. Again, the analogy is similar. It'll probably freak you out, make you feel very uncomfortable, and probably convince you to move out but he never did do anything to you personally. It was just fantasy in his mind. That's scenario one - where you accidentally find out what this guy is secretly fantasizing about you but would never act on it.
Scenario two is where you come home from work at the same time every single day, he knows your schedule, and he knows when you'll be home and you walk in the door to see the sheep with your face picture attached setting on the kitchen table next to a jar of vaseline. He's not there but it's pretty clear he didn't leave it out in an "Oops, I left that out" accidental manner. That's scenario two.
The first scenario, as uncomfortable as it may be, would also more than likely deeply embarrass him that you found out and he'd be more apologetic and ashamed than anything. It was supposed to be personal, private, and only something he fantasized about but not something he ever actually intended on acting out.
The second scenario is a clear boundary violation. He felt strongly enough about his stance and his own personal agenda to disregard your personal comfort and your personal well-being. He is more concerned with his own personal self-absorptions and fantasies than he is about you and this is only the beginning. Ignoring the sheep on the kitchen table will not make it any better because it was left out specifically for you and is as good as him approaching you. To salvage whatever ego he has invested in his sly operation, he did things in a manner where he could claim plausible deniability but the truth is he intentionally disregarded your personal feelings so that he could promote his own.
The thing is that many fundamentalists have the same disregard and self-righteous approach to the "unsaved" as sexual predators do to their victims. They can't contain themselves, cannot keep keep their fantasies and hurtful agendas to themselves, but feel compelled to lash out and make every effort at taking the innocence of others - all the while claiming to themselves and to others that "you enjoyed it too."
The most effective tool to use is the same as a sexual predator - "No means NO!" Do whatever you have to do but don't let the abuse continue. They'll try anything and everything to get you to listen to them and get you to convert. They'll lie, they'll try to make it sound simple, and they'll say they're only going to do it 'just this once.' But, if you let them crack that door, they'll keep coming in, they'll keep up the approach and they won't stop until you believe that the Earth is 6000 years old, that you're speaking in tongues, and that ghouls and goblins are real. Don't let them eat your brains or sodomize you like they do to other sheep.
You mean when they actually wake up to the real world and........think for themselves?
No, immoral and dangerous was probably meant to insinuate drugs, sex, extreme sports, no church, etc... all of which are not kosher/halal
college people wake up to a small world of college life and don't necessarily think for themselves, but now they are freer and away from their parents.
It's pretty simple dub, you were trying to pick up his trash and you noticed your name in it so you read it. nothing wrong with that, something definitely wrong with his moral priorities if he thinks you deserve hell (unless you actually are a bad atheist that is ).
I suggest getting a poster of hell for your room so you can rub it in his face that he was so disrespectful of you, especially when company comes and see's it in your room you can share the story of his list with them. if you don't like such posters yourself then just mention the idea to your roommate to see what he'd think of something like that. Ask him if he's ever looked into Buddhist theology (when Buddha talks to a crazed "creator" god). Have a little fun with his ignorance, unless you don't want to... just let him know it hurt you and that you forgive him and his god/pastor. Let him know that no-one is safe from Religion. Or whatever you think is fitting, that might just be the best.
Last edited by LuminousTruth; 07-22-2012 at 08:24 PM..
Don't judge him, tell him that you found the list and have decided to forgive him (you can mention that his ideas are not solely his fault). Also, let him know that it was a rude brainwashing technique and he shouldn't let it work; if God is so evil then you will forgive such a sadistic beast as well, since it likely has no control over its own nature.
Or just tell him you forgive him, and tell him you understand if he doesn't want to hear your ideas. Explain to him why you don't want it to happen again.
I agree....I was going to suggest that he tell his friend he forgives him as well....(judge not lest ye be judged).....
My religious roomate, who attends a whole bunch of bible studies and other religious get togethers, left out a piece of paper that reads...
Name five people you peraonally know are unsaved.
I was the second one listed.
Firstly, unsaved from what? God? Death? The "afterlife"...whatever that is?
Secondly, at what point did it become acceptable to discuss my religious convictions (of which I have little/any) when I'm not even there to defend them? It's like I'm being judged by a group of people who hardly know me! Pretentious much?
Thirdly, if they must know, I'm not anti god. I'm anti humans trying to understand god. He/She/It is beyond my understanding. If he/she/it makes everything the way it is, I do not understand his/her/its rational. I gave up trying to. I've made peace with just living a moral life, as much as I know how, (with godly ideas mixed in), and hoping that that will be enough. If I did my best, how can god fault me for that?
Maybe I didn't do his best...but he/she/it is god after all...how could I have been expected to?
Your roommate sounds like he needs to get off his self-righteous high horse. Why should he presume to know who's "saved" and who's "unsaved"? I'd last about five minutes rooming with someone like that.
Secondly, at what point did it become acceptable to discuss my religious convictions (of which I have little/any) when I'm not even there to defend them?
It has always been acceptable to talk about people behind their back. I do it all the time.
So your roomie thinks you are "unsaved". So what? He can think whatever he wants.
If you were driving during the nite in a remote location,and you saw a rather dishuvled man waving his arms as you make youre approach and as you slow he says the bridge is out , don't go over that hill , but you insist on your way and sure enough the bridge is out, but it is too late and your car is sliding down the embankment and now you are cussing the man for not stopping you completely.
Is this about right ?
Or is it all the add's teling you not to smoke, but all your freinds do, and you want to identify, so you ignore the warnings even though there is solid evidence that cancer is a definate posibility . and how many peope does it take to get you to listen ?
In your own arogance you assume it is easy to approach people about salvation because you don't care what people think.
Not so for most of the Christian world we do care .
There is nothing in it for those that share , no browney points no glory just a simple caring about other people more thatn them selves .
Believe me it is not easy to get christians to shair because they get so much flack as has been fully demonstrated here. The fact is, If he hated you he would have not even mentioned your name and in his mind let you fry. OK ?
You should be flattered that he is praying for you; I doubt that you would return the favor .
As for what salvation is , clearly ,if you do not believe that you need saving there is little to discuss.
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