Quote:
Originally Posted by gospelsaves
And just to clarify when I say that in that sense He did abolish the law I don’t mean that those laws are no longer valid….rather I mean that what Jesus did on the cross supersedes ANY law.
We may still sin, but when your in Christ “by His wounds we are healed” and can be forgiven! AMEN 
We still may lie, cheat, and steal (break the 10 commandments) but when we have Jesus as our savior…what He did on the cross covers those sins, and supersedes the laws regarding those sins. We can be forgiven.
That’s what I mean. |
this is an excerpt from a website that gives you hundreds of scripture reference to obey gods law.
THE IMPORTANCE OF GOD'S LAW
ONE OF THE MOST SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCES BETWEEN JUDAISM AND CHRISTIANITY IS WHETHER OR NOT THE LAWS THAT GOD GAVE MOSES, TO TEACH TO THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL, ARE STILL IN EFFECT TODAY. IN THIS SECTION I WILL BE DEMONSTRATING HOW MUCH IMPORTANCE GOD PUTS ON HIS LAWS AND HOW DIFFICULT IT IS (FOR ME) TO EVER THINK GOD WOULD NO LONGER WANT HIS LAWS FOLLOWED.
A. WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS ABOUT GOD'S LAW
AROUND 1700 YEARS BEFORE JESUS WAS BORN, GOD MADE IT CLEAR WHY ALL THE NATIONS OF THE EARTH WOULD BE BLESSED THROUGH ABRAHAM'S DESCENDANTS:
GEN026:004 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
GEN026:005 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
IT APPEARS THAT ABRAHAM FOLLOWED GOD'S LAW OVER 400 YEARS BEFORE THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL RECEIVED THE LAW IN THE WILDERNESS.
AROUND 1200 YEARS BEFORE JESUS WAS BORN, GOD TRANSMITTED HIS LAW TO THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL, THROUGH MOSES, THE GREATEST OF ALL PROPHETS. THE FOLLOWING PASSAGES SHOW THE IMPORTANCE GOD PUTS ON HIS LAWS:
INTRODUCTION
isaiah 53
The first problem with relating all this to Jesus is that the KJV of Chapter 53 has several translation problems. Verses 3 and 4 speak of the servant's "grief" but the Hebrew word here is "choli" -- "sick" Verse 3 says "we hid as it were our faces," as if the speakers were embarrassed by the servant' appearance, but the Hebrew "mistar" is singular -- the suffering servant arouses contempt just like someone who hides his face. Verse 5 speaks of "stripes," a specific wound resulting from a whipping, but the Hebrew "heverto" is more general -- bruise or injury -- without reference to whip marks. Verse 6 in the KJV reads "the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all" but the grammatical structure suggests "wounded him with our sin," the implication being -- not that the servant took on the responsibility for someone else's sin, but rather that what someone else did hurt the servant.
The Jews for Judaism analysis of Isaiah 53 makes these additional points about translation: in verse five, rather than "he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities," the prefix "mem" means "from," not "for", i.e. the speakers of the verse hurt the servant, not that he was punished by G-d as a substitute for them. In verse 11, the Hebrew "yatsdeek" means "will make just" (by bringing the Torah), not "will justify (someone's sins by taking their punishment)."
If you incorporate these different translations into the text, you get a markedly different impression. "He hurt a lot and knew what sickness was" just does not sound like"A man of sorrow and acquainted with grief." "We despised him as someone who hid his face" does not mean the same as "we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised." In short, the almost reflex identification of the chapter with Jesus depends on the translation of the text -- not on the text itself. And to see that in fact the text does not refer to Jesus, we need only to examine the ...
The second problem is that Jesus doesn't fit several of the details in the chapter. a) As mentioned above, Jesus was never sick. Some say that he was sick during the crucifixion, but physical trauma (e.g. execution) is not considered sickness in the normal sense of the word. b) Jesus had no children. Some say this refers to disciples or spiritual children, but the word "zera" is common in the Tanach and, when applied to people, always means linear descendants, not someone's disciples or followers. c) Jesus was not buried with the wicked. One cannot even say he died with the wicked since the Hebrew "rashaeem" is plural and, according to the crucifixion story, one of the thieves next to him ended up in heaven and so was not wicked. d) Jesus did not have long life. Missionaries say he had long life in heaven, but that, again, is stretching the meaning of the word. e) verse 9 "Nor was there deceit in his mouth." doesn't apply because, according to the gospel accounts, Jesus lied to his family about going to Jerusalem. (John 7:8-10), and lied in saying that he never taught in secret (see John 18:20, vs. Matt. 16:20, Mark 8:30 and others).
The Jews for Judaism analysis of Isaiah 53 points out that a) contrary to verse 2, Jesus is never described as physically unattractive; b) far from being rejected and despised as verse 3 says, the Gospel writers describe him as being popular; c) contrary to verse 7, Jesus did a lot of talking; and d) instead of being non-violent (verse 9), Jesus overturned tables, chased people from their jobs, and promised to bring swords.
So then, while the first impression on reading a Christian translation of Isaiah 53 may be to think of Jesus, looking deeper shows that the Hebrew text does not sound like Jesus, and the context shows shows many differences from what the Christian Bible says about Jesus.
Who then is the servant? Though some Jewish scholars have said he will be the Messiah, more likely the chapter does not refer to an individual person at all. Isaiah himself identifies Israel as the servant of HaShem:
Chapter 41:8 But you, Israel My servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham, who loved Me, 9 Whom I grasped from the ends of the earth, and from its nobles I called you, and I said to you, "You are My servant"
Chapter 44:1 And now, hearken, Jacob My servant, and Israel whom I have chosen. 2 So said the Lord your Maker, and He Who formed you from the womb shall aid you. Fear not, My servant Jacob, and Jeshurun whom I have chosen. ... 21 Remember these, O Jacob; and Israel, for you are My servant; I formed you that you be a servant to Me, Israel, do not forget Me.
Chapter 45:4 For the sake of My servant Jacob, and Israel My chosen one, and I called to you (i.e. Cyrus) by your name;
Chapter 48:20 Leave Babylon, flee from the Chaldeans; with a voice of singing declare, tell this, publicize it to the end of the earth; say, "The Lord has redeemed His servant Jacob."
Chapter 49:3 And He said to me, "You are My servant, Israel, about whom I will boast."
Isaiah 53
B. SUFFERING SERVANT
Christianity claims that Isaiah chapter 53 refers to Jesus, as the "suffering servant."
In actuality, Isaiah 53 directly follows the theme of chapter 52, describing the exile and redemption of the Jewish people. The prophecies are written in the singular form because the Jews ("Israel") are regarded as one unit. Throughout Jewish scripture, Israel is repeatedly called, in the singular, the "Servant of God" (see Isaiah 43:8). In fact, Isaiah states no less than 11 times in the chapters prior to 53 that the Servant of God is Israel. When read correctly, Isaiah 53 clearly [and ironically] refers to the Jewish people being "bruised, crushed and as sheep brought to slaughter" at the hands of the nations of the world. These descriptions are used throughout Jewish scripture to graphically describe the suffering of the Jewish people (see Psalm 44). Isaiah 53 concludes that when the Jewish people are redeemed, the nations will recognize and accept responsibility for the inordinate suffering and death of the Jews.
For further reading, go to:
Jews for Judaism FAQ (http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/web/faq/faq-ss.html - broken link)
Why Jews Don't Believe In Jesus
The Torah was intended to be permanent, not a temporary measure to be set aside at a later time. Missionaries claim that Jesus "fulfilled" the Torah so that it is no longer needed. Torah says otherwise, and uses the phrase "eternal statute" ("hukat olam") 16 different times. Of particular interest is the use of this phrase in relation to atonement.
Leviticus Chapter 16: 29 (KJV) And this shall be a statute for ever unto you: that in the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, ye shall afflict your souls, and do no work at all, whether it be one of your own country, or a stranger that sojourneth among you: 30 For on that day shall the priest make an atonement for you, to cleanse you, that ye may be clean from all your sins before the LORD. 31 It shall be a sabbath of rest unto you, and ye shall afflict your souls, by a statute for ever. 32 And the priest, whom he shall anoint, and whom he shall consecrate to minister in the priest's office in his father's stead, shall make the atonement, and shall put on the linen clothes, even the holy garments: 33 And he shall make an atonement for the holy sanctuary, and he shall make an atonement for the tabernacle of the congregation, and for the altar, and he shall make an atonement for the priests, and for all the people of the congregation. 34 And this shall be an everlasting statute unto you, to make an atonement for the children of Israel for all their sins once a year. And he did as the LORD commanded Moses.
In spite of the explicit detail, the clear statement that it is to be an ongoing yearly ritual, and the repeated statement that it is an eternal statute, the missionaries will tell you that it has all been replaced by a one time human sacrifice in the form of a Roman execution.
The missionary may ask if our sins are not forgiven since we do not have this ritual now. The answer is that this ritual is not the only one for atonement, not by a long shot (see above).
Since this ritual is not in fact done today, one might ask if that proves the Torah wrong. The answer is no -- it doesn't. The ritual is one of the temple rituals, and so is intended only for when the temple is in existence. If and when the temple is rebuilt, the ritual may very well be started again.
Consider also: Ezek 37:24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
"David my servant" refers to a descendent of David, i.e., the Messiah, in whose time the 'statutes' will still be observed.
Deut 6:25; Deut 30:11-14; Ps 19:7-8: Lev 16: 29 -34; Ezek 37:24
Verses missionaries ignore
Deut 4 kjv
15Take ye therefore good heed unto yourselves; for ye saw no manner of similitude on the day that the LORD spake unto you in Horeb out of the midst of the fire:
16Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female, (jesus is a male)
17The likeness of any beast that is on the earth, the likeness of any winged fowl that flieth in the air,
18The likeness of any thing that creepeth on the ground, the likeness of any fish that is in the waters beneath the earth:
19And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the LORD thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven.
20But the LORD hath taken you, and brought you forth out of the iron furnace, even out of Egypt, to be unto him a people of inheritance, as ye are this day.
21Furthermore the LORD was angry with me for your sakes, and sware that I should not go over Jordan, and that I should not go in unto that good land, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance:
22But I must die in this land, I must not go over Jordan: but ye shall go over, and possess that good land.
23Take heed unto yourselves, lest ye forget the covenant of the LORD your God, which he made with you, and make you a graven image, or the likeness of any thing, which the LORD thy God hath forbidden thee.
24For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.
BibleGateway.com - Passage*Lookup: Deuteronomy 4;
sin
2. Blood sacrifice is not essential for forgiveness. Missionaries say that G-d must have blood in order to forgive sins. I have even heard them make the blasphemous sounding statement that G-d is incapable, does not have the ability, to forgive without bloodshed. Such an idea is primitive and barbaric, but that is not the point. The point is that the Tanach does not agree. According to Tanach, there are several acceptable means for repentance.
Leviticus 5 11 (KJV) But if he be not able to bring two turtledoves, or two young pigeons, then he that sinned shall bring for his offering the tenth part of an ephah of fine flour for a sin offering; he shall put no oil upon it, neither shall he put any frankincense thereon: for it is a sin offering.
Isaiah Chapter 1:11 (KJV) To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.
Micah Chapter 6 is particularly explicit as to what G-d wants:
(KJV) 6 Wherewith shall I come before the LORD, and bow myself before the high God? shall I come before him with burnt offerings, with calves of a year old? 7 Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, or with ten thousands of rivers of oil? shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul? 8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?
Missionaries sometimes say this means Jesus. But that it not what the text says.
Hosea Chapter 14 waxes poetic and describes words (of repentance) as if they were the animal sacrifices ("calves of our lips"):
(KJV) 1 O Israel, return unto the LORD thy God; for thou hast fallen by thine iniquity. 2 Take with you words, and turn to the LORD: say unto him, Take away all iniquity, and receive us graciously: so will we render the calves of our lips.
The Psalmist expresses the same idea.
Psalms 40 (KJV) 6 Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.
Psalms 50 (KJV) 7 Hear, O my people, and I will speak; O Israel, and I will testify against thee: I am God, even thy God. 8 I will not reprove thee for thy sacrifices or thy burnt offerings, to have been continually before me. 9 I will take no bullock out of thy house, nor he goats out of thy folds. 10 For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills. 11 I know all the fowls of the mountains: and the wild beasts of the field are mine. 12 If I were hungry, I would not tell thee: for the world is mine, and the fulness thereof. 13 Will I eat the flesh of bulls, or drink the blood of goats? 14 Offer unto God thanksgiving; and pay thy vows unto the most High: 15 And call upon me in the day of trouble: I will deliver thee, and thou shalt glorify me.
Money (Exodus 30:15-16), jewelry (Numbers 31:50) or putting fire from the altar in a censure (Numbers 17:11) are also listed as means to forgiveness.
Hosea is specific that animal sacrifices will stop for a temporary period (as opposed to being stopped forever and replaced by something else.)
Hosea Chapter 3: 4 (KJV). For the children of Israel shall abide many days without a king, and without a prince, and without a sacrifice, and without an image, and without an ephod, and without teraphim: 5 Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the LORD their God, and David their king; and shall fear the LORD and his goodness in the latter days.
Verses missionaries ignore
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